Colors Of The Rainbow

We all have a desire to connect, belong and have a sense of identity. For the most part, developing a sense of identity is a great thing. We celebrate it. We applaud each other on it. We high five, and pat each other on the back when we realize we connect with where one is coming from – and what their identity is

To be identified can be a great thing. But it can can also be a terrible challenge when you are not included – when you don’t identify. To be excluded is a terrible place to be. It feels lonely, painful and deeply hurful not to identify.

Sexual Identity Issues

I don’t think there is anywhere the pain and stigma of identity is more acute than in the area of sexual identity – and orientation. The question of sexual orientation is shrouded in mystery, suspicion and conflict. This is perhaps because our sexual activities are intensely personal.

Now, when many of us enter into a conversation or hear of or meet people who are homosexual we tense up. The question of gay identity has become an area of uncomfortable silence on one hand, or conflict – a sore point of contention, word throwing and even stone throwing.

The world can be a terribly unsafe place to be when your sexual orientation is different from others. People will say and do all sorts of things. The world is a difficult place for someone with  a different sexual orientation to live in. The church has not done much to make it any better for this discussion to be had.

Today we want to talk about the issue of sexual orientation or preferences.

Today we’ll talk about the issue of sexual preferences.

My ID is in God

Scripture: Genesis 1:26-28; 2:24

Same Sex Attraction

People experience same sex curiosity or even attraction of different kinds – girl crushes, bro-mance.

Definitions:

Homosexuality – sexual attraction to people of the same sex

Lesbian – female homosexuals

Gay – male homosexuals

Bisexual – sexually attracted to people of both sexes – genders

Transexual – a person born with the physical characteristics of one sex who emotionally and psychologically feels that they belong to the opposite sex.

Intersex – condition of being biologically intermediate between both sexes

Questioning – those who are questioning their sexual identity.

Unwanted Same sex attraction – momentary, seasonal or even long-term attraction to people of the same sex. It may be erotic and sexual or not.

Stigma of Sexual Orientation

The question of sexual identity can be a confusing one and one which brings much conflict and pain.

Word on the street –

The word on the street comes in a couple of ways

–        God is not in it / God doesn’t care / God doesn’t know / God is oldskul, not with it, lagging behind, needs some help, he needs an upgrade / It doesn’t matter anyway / I was made this way. This is my identity.

My ID

Our identity is first of all is in God. We are God’s lookalikes.

We are all cut from the same spiritual piece of cloth.

26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness,

27 So God created mankind in his own image,

    in the image of God he created them;

    male and female he created them.

Illustration: When kids are born we try to find what parts look like whose.

We are made in God’s spiritual image. We derive our spiritual purpose, sense of belonging and destiny in God. Before we are sexual beings we are spiritual beings. The part of us that most looks like our creator and yearns to belong is the spiritual part within us.

This part of our identity is what then should act as the DNA marking all other areas of our human lives. It is the spiritual DNA that defines who we are to be. You are first of all made in the image of God. We come from the same maker who had the same design for us.

Questions: If we are all the same in terms of our spiritual DNA then why is there so much conflict both internally and externally about gender identity? Why doesn’t everyone live out their sexuality the same way? Why do we have unwanted same sex attraction? Didn’t the same God who made us, and our feelings then create some to have feelings for each other? God is love, why shouldn’t I love anyone I choose to male or female?

According to Genesis 3, our lives and our world is broken and fallen. Adam and Eve introduced sin that plagues us. This is the reason why our normal shifted away from God’s normal. This sin affected everything in our world – our relationships, finances, politics, economics – everything including our sexuality, sexual relationships and even our sexual identity. This is not the situation that God intended for us. This is why there are differences. These differences do not erase who we are at the core.

It is critical to understand that even though we all struggle through and are affected by all these things in our lives and our world, at the very core, we crave for an identity – which can only be found in God.

The answer to “Who am I?” is that I am God’s. I derive my sense of purpose, belonging and destiny in God.

I pray that you would find this sense of purpose in Christ.

My ID is in God

Sexual ID

Sexual identity matters to God.

Our gender, makeup has something to do with the end goal for our lives. It matters to God that you are male, or female. It matters to God you are who he made you to be.

David the Psalmist

For you created my inmost being;

    you knit me together in my mother’s womb.

14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;

    your works are wonderful,

    I know that full well.

15 My frame was not hidden from you

Ps 139 13-15

God is very meticulous about how he has put us together. He has coded it in our DNA [deoxyribonucleic acid] millions of protein molecules that put in genes.

He has coded in us with amazing detail in our genes – our gender, race, hair color and texture, eye color. Our propensity for addiction to certain kinds of addiction and even disease. It is interesting that the gene for sexual preference has not been found after almost 10 years since the human genome was coded.

It matters to God that you are male and female. First from a spiritual stand point then from a physical, relational and emotional standpoint.

Before God said – don’t do this or that, he said this is who I have made you to be.

It is also important to God that we are male and female. He intends to do something with our gender differences and the relationship between these genders.

He wants to glorify himself in our gender differences, and he also wants to reveal himself in our gender differences. Jesus quotes this and explains it for us in Matt 19:4-5 saying

“that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’[b]?

  1. First of all something about who God is, is revealed by our different genders. The image of God is revealed in our gender differences.

 Gen 1:27 in the image of God he created them;

    male and female he created them.

  1. Secondly something about the special, intimate relationship of marriage between a man and a woman is important in God’s order of things. Sex and sexual expression finds its fulfillment in a marriage relationship between a man and a woman. God calls for abstinence for all who are outside of this special relationship. This is what I see in scripture.

Marriage has a spiritual significance. We are given a clue of this when Jesus says – that at the end of all things he is coming for his bride, the church. This is echoed in Revelation the book about our final destiny as God’s people. Sex, sexuality and marriage is not just about 2 people loving each other. It is also about living out in our physical, relationships the spiritual picture of his relationship with us.

My ID is in God

Visual: It does not matter what or where you have been. Your ID sense of purpose and destiny will only be fulfilled in God.

What do we do

–        Church – our response to someone who looks and acts differently from us sexually –

o      We are seeking God’s purpose for us together. It does not matter what you are struggling with – we have all agreed together to seek God and discover together his purpose for us. It does not matter what you

o      must be to be gracious, hospitable and humble knowing that non of us is without sin. We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. We also all have in our core our identity in God. Sin has overtaken all of us and we need to be gracious, humble and respectful in how we treat people who are not like us.

o      God’s pattern for  sex is that it is to be had between a man and a woman in a marriage relationship. Outside of this God calls us to abstain. There will be differences of opinion but may God bring about his purpose and identity for you and others.

–        SSA – God is concerned about your sexuality. He has a purpose and destiny for you. I encourage you to share with someone safe about your struggle. Together we can join the journey to step into the future that God has for you. It may have been a momentary struggle. It also could well be your life choice now. It doesn’t matter. God still wants you back – in the same way he wants us all back.

–        I know that there are some listening to me right now who struggle with unwanted same sex attraction. I cannot imagine the difficulty of living with internal conflict and external pressure. Remember that you are first of all made in the image of God. God wants more than any of us, to connect with you at a deep spiritual level. I encourage you to enter the journey. God intends to be reconciled with you. It is in this reconciliation that you will find resolution for the tension, conflict and difficulty of your situation.

–        Personal Story: I know now that the Holy Spirit inside of me was fighting FOR me and for the truth of who I am in Christ.  The amazing love of Christ wooed me home….  The feelings I had fought most of my life remained, but I was beginning to see the truth of who I really was.  I was learning more than religion.  I was learning to rest in my new identity.  It was the beginning of a journey to freedom and new life.

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46 Responses to “Colors Of The Rainbow”

  1. mary mwangi Says:

    Thanks 4 the wonderful message, I’m so blessed and also challnged coz sometimes we forget that God is concerned about our sexual behaviour. May the Holy Spirit help us as we beat the devil’s lies through the word of God.
    God bless Mavuno. Mary from UAE.

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  2. I have a buddy who was deeply in love with this guy who left her almost a year ago. They were perfect together. She was a good christian woman. When they had issues in their relationships, she fought heart and soul to maintain it but before we all knew it, he had left her for another woman, he even started doing things for her that he never did for our buddy that she always hoped he would. This hurt her a lot. She fell into depression.

    She gave up on praying, fell into drinking, lost her job, lost friends and worse lost herself. She doesn’t believe in love, stopped coming to church, she declines relationships because she believes she will get played again. We don’t know her relationship status any more. She sleeps with girls and men too. She hates herself after doing it because she says a voice in her heart always reminds her it’s wrong. We don’t know what to do, what to say but we just pray.

    I don’t know how some women manage to abstain and stay hopeful in God waiting for their partners while others loose it to a pint of loosing their sexuality. We are our brothers keepers, how can we have our friend back?

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    • Hey. Will pray for your pal. The end of relationships is horrible, because this is a person who you allowed to become part of you. Please tell your friend to stop living in the past. All the things she says to herself are lies: that she’l get played again, that men are bad, bla bla. The devil is bright. and he has learnt the ropes to keep her from achieving her purpose – Fear! she is afraid to leave that (very horrible, degrading) comfort zone. yet she doesn’t know that every day she chooses the past, she rejects her future. Tell her its hard, very hard to get up and choose to live, but also tell her, that she will love herself more if she chooses to live, for herself. and she doesn’t have to do this alone, she can task Jesus, a task He loves. and one day she wil wake up and she won’t remember how sad she used to be.

      Please tell her to try, to start. and Jesus will take her the rest of the way.

      All the rest of us can do to get her back is pray for her, and love her, unconditionally.

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  3. Long overdue. Interesting that you discuss this while in Kenya we are grappling with the reality of homosexuality. While it’s been there in our society, it has not been as obvious as it is now. It is necessary the church WORLDWIDE takes a stand regarding this issue with grace and mercy at the core of our response. Thank you for your faithfulness in talking about something that is not “Christianly” popular.

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  4. Hi thank Pasi for the sermon hope it will go far in helping alot of us who are single .Hope at some point you teach people on how to break the soul ties .equip the lg leader ,prayer counselors on how to walk with people who have been in these issues .Baraka tele mavuno for what you are doing .

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  5. Dear Pastor,

    Thanks for the Word yesterday. I was really waiting to hear this part on this month’s series. I do not label myself as being gay but what I know is that I have been attracted to people of the same sex as I am since very early in my childhood. No one introduced me to it…all I remember is that it started as a game between me and my cousin and the stories goes on. Now 25 years later I still have not changed. I have prayed, I have fasted, I have gone for so called ‘counselling’ but Pastor I still wake up in the morning and am still attracted to people of my gender.

    Yesterday’s message just left me once again confused by all that people are saying about homosexuality. I have been hurt by the church and the leaders more precisely because when I was neediest and I went to them for help they were the ones who persecuted me and told me I have a spirit from hell…I was told very many things, I was very hurt during this period…I really wanted to get out of it…be changed, be transformed…but instead all I got was rejection and judgement.

    Pastor let me be real, all I want is to be loved and to love back…loving someone from the opposite gender does not quite fill the void, the hunger or the thirst in me…on the other hand there is God and what He wills for me. He is the same God who put in me the capacity to want to love and to be loved back in return…just that mine does not work like ‘straight’ people. This war is too much for me and at times I feel suicidal.

    At the moment I have chosen to be numb…but I cannot keep up with this fence strategy for long, I know I have to choose but I cannot choose, wherever I go God will be there, and also as much as I choose not to get attracted the void of love is still there with me…

    All I want is LOVE…why can’t no one seem to understand this??? Why is there so much struggle and pain in my life all because of sexuality? And you straight people why do you persecute that which you do not understand?

    Pastor I need a real answer I need a real solution…

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    • Hi, I just need to say to you,that I really appreciate your post.

      For a long time I have been proud to be homophobic until recently when my bosses words came back to me.He asked what I would do if my child came and confessed to being ‘gay’.Pl stay in touch.It wud be so good if you could join our LG somehow without feeling ‘exposed’.The All knowing God has got your back and His love for you remains unconditional.I have no answer but I know the God who does.May He come through for you and use the humans He placed on earth and at Mavuno to answer you.

      Thanks for being real.

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    • KT,
      I appreciate you the way you are. Thanks for being honest, and bringing to light the struggles of many others. I know at some point you will have to choose, in order to overcome cognitive dissonance. Even at that time, I pray you find peace in the choice you make–whether to be openly gay or otherwise. Most importantly, I hope it shall be the right choice for you. May you find love, wherever you go.

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    • Also, how about forming support groups where we can discuss theme specific issues? over to you Pst Kyama

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  6. That was a balanced, accommodating and sensitive sermon. It dealt with a very emotive topic with a lot of class and tact whilst staying true to God’s word. Kudos. Even the LGBT community in the congregation onSunday would find little fault with it.

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  7. The sermon was great….and very careful I think. I think there is a lot that needs to be said and that needs to be heard. We naturally hate what we don’t understand – being beaten by the teachers in primo &we didn’t understand why, being forced to eat tasteless albeit healthy food even when it’s good for us thus hating it, your boss simply because you don’t understand him/her…etc. We dislike/mistrust the Muslim community because we don’t understand them (and perhaps believe we are better and more deserving of heaven than they are).We hate the LGBT community coz we don’t understand them…nor do we make an effort to. We don’t understand that they didn’t just wake up one day to find that they were the way they are, that nothing sinister happened to them (molestation, abuse etc) thus we hate what they are/what they represent etc. As pastor pointed out, apart from sexual orientation, how different are they from us really? Are they any less/more human than we are? Is there blood red-black instead of red? Do they breathe in to exhale and out to inhale? Is there something missing in their genetics or too much of something or other? We are expert bible thumpers when we want to justify our actions and feelings yet the very same bible we use to our defense quick to defend the very ones we persecute. Does the good book not say that we are all fearfully and wonderfully made? Does it not say that “I know the plans I have for you…”, “I knew you before you were born…”, “We are all created in the image and likeness of God…” Does it mean a physical resemblance rather than a spiritual resemblance? If He knew us before we were born and He created us in our mother’s womb and breathed life into us, shouldn’t we then know He knew how our lives were going to turn out long before we did?
    If we discriminate against the LGBT community as we regularly do, aren’t we then as bad as the racists, tribalists, chauvanists, leftists and all the ‘ists’ that we proudly label as evil? The commandment “Love your neighbor as you love yourself” did not come with a caveat “with the exception of people of a different sexual preference, skin colour, religious conviction, societal status…” I believe that love means acceptance regardless of personal beliefs; same way your parents accepted you (as you now embrace your children) regardless of how difficult and not-the-model child you turned out to be; same way you accepted your wayward alcoholic promiscuous friend simply because you saw the good in them; same way you accepted and loved your spouse as they are despite their venomous, gossipy, lazy, stingy personality, you saw some good in them. Remember you will be judged and hang out to dry with the same harshness you judge others.
    For the longest time I’ve have been guilty of doing the same – judging. Yet the sum-total of my imperfections if far much greater than the ‘evil’ of their sexual preference. What if my son whom I love dearly turned out the same? Would I want him to receive the same harsh treatment as I mete out to ‘them’? Will I love him any less because of that? Will it not tear me apart if he went through all that they go through? Check out this post on Huffington post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/13/timothy-kurek-straight-christian-pretends-gay_n_1963657.html). I pray for strength, understanding and an open heart to accept those around me for God has put them around me for a purpose, for the good of me.

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    • I think that homosexuals should not look at their lives from that dimension- that there are other areas of life that need to be looked at and addressed. if you have a hateful heart, it needs to be worked on just as much as you need to work on your attraction to other man. sin is sin, whether it is a white lie or stealing from the handicapped. Focusing on one area of your life that seems to be something so huge will not only bring self pity (which hinder’s Spiritual growth) but also lead to a blame game which prevents taking responsibility and dealing with the situation.
      also, @KT, I feel you. but its not an impasse. just follow God’s word, and look up to Him as a fatherly figure who doesn’t just sit there and wait for you to sin so that He can hit you with a big cane and send you to hell after. all things work together for good for those who love Him. your being gay might have brought about some change in your life you might not know. Praise God for His majesty and wisdom.
      P.S, before you sigh in resolution, Im actually an ex gay guy living in the Joy of the Lord. (I’m still struggling with the issue at hand but God will get me to where He wants me to be.)

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  8. listening to Rev Adolwa left me challenged on how personally i have had negative t thoughts to people in same sex .i believe it is a challenge we have to accept and leave with it .

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  9. Dear KT I feel you kabisa.I too have gone through the same struggle and enyewe neither you nor I can handle this thing on our own. Thats why we come to God.His yoke is easy and His burden is light. There is nothing too big for Him. Always remember that the fight is not yours but the Lord’s.

    “Thats all good, “you might say” but be practical, I have needs.”But think about it KT, if you were straight and Christian you would have to wait until you are married to have a sexual relationship. Meanwhile, living a life of sexual purity, masturbation and pornography would be no-go areas. If you got married, adultery even with unsatisfied sex life would be against Gods will. Maybe because the society takes a lax view on some of these things we think the church should too, but God’s word is clear and his intentions for our sexuality are well set out. And i know relationships are not all about sex but we all know sexual compatibility in the gay world tops the list.

    I have personally come to the conclusion that it is possible that for some of us, (homosexuals) sexual fulfillment is not on the table if we are to follow God. It is a hard pill to swallow, but unless God somehow turns you and gives you an attraction to the opposite gender then that might be the bitter truth. The road is narrow and few are those that follow it. Remember, I am gay as I tell you this.

    But you have to take responsibility for your spirituality, as i sat in the tent listening to the sermon i knew that even if Pastor Kyama spoke the words that would be honey to my ears they still would not change God’s word. Homosexual offenders will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    So what do I? Begin to pray to God and confess to Him any sin and ask Him for his guidance. He is always there for you. Look around you. Do you have things that might tempt you, even innocent things like a Men’s health edition or REPS magazine (from my experience) get rid of it.

    Begin to examine your life. When you are walking in town or anywhere do you always take more than a glance, purpose not to. Absent yourself from unhealthy relationships that will not help you.Those guys that tell you that you were born this way.

    Have the mental discipline not to fantasize about all the possible scenarios you could act out.
    Read Phillipians 4:8 on what to think about.
    Find someone to talk to about this.
    And take it a day at a time.
    And remember to smile through the pain,and you will see life is worthwhile.
    God bless you.,

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    • I hear what you are saying…I have to agree that mostly in the LGBT community our first drive is sex and after that there is hardly anything else. However I am of a different mindset (if you will allow me)…

      Yes there are times I strongly long to be intimate with a guy without any other commitment towards him, but this was in my teenage years and it felt childish and shallow. But with time and a mature mind I begun to hunger for something with deeper roots, something other than just sex…What is in me right now is a hunger to just be loved and love back in return. Over the years I have tried hard not to exalt sexual gratification but instead I have shifted my focus on building a better friendship, a better relationship…one that I know is not just a sex escapade…I may also point out that this has been hard because most guys out here are just after going to bed and seem not to have any other vision or focus in life (this annoys me greatly).

      I have to take spiritual responsibility…but seriously how??? I actually have no magazines or porn to tempt me…I do not believe I was born this way but also I cannot hide the fact that I am this way…one question how do you tell a straight single person not to notice a beautiful girl walking by??? The same way here attraction is like breathing, it will be there whether I want it or not…this is a complex issue my friend…I just wish I can find closure.

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    • God Bless you anonymus. I am straight, and i have learnt a great deal from you, in as far as what God wants from us in sexual purity, gay or straight, and what God wants from us in terms of Obeidence Period!.

      Be blessed, and may you overcome in Jesus name.

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  10. I feel KT on this one…you might say we have an identity as God intended. But how do you change who you are as a person and you have been so since you were like 5yrs…I have always loved girls all my crushes have been girls..am now all grown up and i don’t want to be in a relationship coz i know i love women more than men.

    I have tried everything like KT, done counseling, praying. I was raised well in a good christian family but i cannot help who I am.

    So i decided a few years back let me just be gay am more happy in it…but in my heart i know its wrong but i cant just stop being gay…..its hard….

    Confused lady

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  11. @ annonymous 22 Oct 10.51pm, i love your honesty and just how real you are with this! That’s a gift, perhaps you can walk with many others who struggle as you did. What you say has a lot of wisdom and love as well, i guess its that you have walked the talk.

    @KT, that you are having this conversation is answer to your prayers. it might not feel it lakini God hs opened a door to talk about it and thats an answered prayer.

    i like what annonymous said, that even ‘the straight’ we have to make a decision to wait till we are married. I am single, and get as lonely as you do. But at some point i made a decision to wait for a believer when everything in me screamed taking a short cut and marrying anyone to end the loneliness. Has it been easy, no. But everyday i celebrate the rship i have with God, I would not give that up for anything, even being married. I guess what I am saying is the loneliness you feel, its just God who can fill it. I can be married and lonely, you can be with another gay person and lonely; that space only God can fill. Your rship with God is most important and anything that comes between that we all have to fight off jelously!

    My prayer is that God would give us all the grace to walk with each other in ALL our battles! Thats what above all else Christ taught, LOVE! But also the courage to live HIS WORD not when it suits us but at all times!

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  12. Your stories have brought tears to my eyes. I do not struggle with same sex attraction, but I struggle with a host of other sins. For example, lust, pride, greed, gluttony, self-centeredness, etc. Sadly, the list is much longer. I also know that God loves me and you. I think all believers, myself included, need to be constantly reminded that the judgment throne is too big for us and that God’s chief currency in his dealings with all of us is grace. I will join God in dispensing grace, but leave the judgment to him. Besides, dealing righteously with my own sin is a full time job.

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  13. This is great of Mavuno church to be holding these discussions

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  14. Could it be that you (the Christian LGBT community) are judging yourselves harshly (based on our upbringing) yet God has been telling you over and over again that He loves you just as you are? As Njesh did, be happy in who you are and indeed you will find peace. Relax, uko na Mungu. God bless you all.

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  15. I’d like to start by noting the important points that am getting from KT and Mbogo’s comments, where they say that a voice deep in their heart keeps telling them that what they are doing is wrong.

    Clearly as portrayed by Mbogo and KT we should never assume that people we term as sinners/ ungodly do not know the scriptures. However knowing the scriptures is more of knowing the LIFE of Jesus practicing it through faith is more of knowing the SPIRIT of Jesus. There is no life without the spirit and once the spirit is released salvation from all bondage sets in. For instance the hemorrhagic woman saw Jesus passing by and she had heard about Him (His life) when she touched His garments through faith (His Spirit) Jesus felt His power flowing off Him and the woman was instantly healed. This is what I urge you KT and Mbogo’s friend, it’s about time you walk in the Spirit too as obedience to God’s word is far more important than what happens to us, Genesis 6:22 says Noah did EVERYTHING as God commanded him (obedience).

    I believe when bondage befalls us we look for logic which may drive us crazy to a point where bad looks good and we start thinking that our process is our promise. I thank God you both know that this is not your promise therefore have patience because changes are not going to happen over night. You are both in the process period; conceptually it is always (Problem—Process—Solution) and the most important bit is the process/transition period because this is where we learn ourselves and know God better if we stay faithful. Let’s be real guys, and listen to the voice that has been telling you that what you are doing is wrong. As it is written in the book of Jeremiah this voice (God) knew us when we were in our mother’s womb and has had plans for us, to give us a future and a hope. Hence we are God’s children and our playing small for instance at such times does not serve the higher purpose He’s called us for.

    TK as you wait for someone who has been through the same and got saved to advice you, you need to realize that sometimes we need to be our own heroes so make that bold step and stop listening to the devils distractions each time you want to do God’s will. The time is always right to do what is right and that time is now you will meet your mentors on the way. Let God possess His temple again. Pray always so that you don’t loose your focus because you might sink similar to Peter when he looked at the water instead of focusing on Jesus. Even Jesus fervently prayed on Mt. Olives despite being sinless, how much more do we with sin then need to pray? As I said earlier there’s no condemnation with Jesus, He could have stoned the adulterous woman because he was sinless but he didn’t that is what His amazing grace is all about. Jesus did not cover our sins He washed them way (quoted). So let your words be humbled to His faith, sacrificed to His love, and conformed to God’s will in the attainment of sanctity and great things will be accomplished through His grace and soon you guys will be the ones giving testimonies and mentoring others in similar issues in Jesus Name.

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    • Luseka, I understand what you are saying…but also what if this voice in me is all about self righteousness??? The guilt and condemnation that this voice brings inside me is treacherous…note it is this guilt and condemnation that drives me towards feeling worthless and subsequently contemplate suicide…so should I still believe this is the voice of my own conscience or the Holy Spirit convicting me of my ‘sin’? Shouldn’t true Holy Spirit led conviction lead to repentance instead of self-hatred?

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  16. anonymous22@10 Says:

    I sure got a funny name,he he.@KT and Njesh, I want to give a well thought out and biblical response to what you have said. I Should be able to do so by tomorrow afternoon.

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  17. Hi,

    I have had an identity crisis all my life. At the core was who am I? I have tried to be many people that i have admired. People around me have only been too happy to define me. This lack of identity has been played out of course in my sexual life with the split identity of good boy in public and sexual deviant in private. Add to that mix my other issues of unforgiveness, bitterness (which played out in my sexual life) and well you have a deadly cocktail. I have now reached my crossroad where I must finally accept my true identity a broken but forgiven person in Christ to move onto a full life. I have stumbled quite a few times (and big time) . But I don’t intend to lose sight of where I am going. As Paul said ‘ Forgetting what is behind…’

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  18. Live and let live..

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  19. You could have cut the tension on Sunday. we really do no want these things aired in public or do we? I suggest we have day long discussions and teachings on this.

    Pastor you were oh so careful! I thought that was very wise, because may of us were waiting and hoping, with bated breath, for fire and brimstone.

    It is true we need to treat each other other with grace and tenderness, because though we are all different, we are all the same, and never far from the love of God. for all Mavunites out there who are going thro’ tough choices, love yourself, and know that you will be better, through HE that strengthens you. Let GO and Let GOD. Easy does it, and lay off the beating yourself down.

    Kudos Passie. I was impressed after my diatribe last week.

    Like

  20. KT, thanks for a heartfelt post. After the sermon we were discussing the very same issue. When no one molested you, or coerced you, but this is what you want?

    Please read ‘Conversations with God, Vol 1. I have found answers to many questions that I had .

    What I know, God loves you without hesitating. That is the one true thing. Why, he knew you even as you were formed in a dark place. Who else can say otherwise!

    Be loved. Be love.

    Imani

    Like

  21. anonymous22@10 Says:

    Dear KT, I am debating which way to respond to all the issues you raised.Very important and pertinent points you raised. I commend the fact that you have moved past sexual lust to a desire for genuine, deep friendships with persons of the same sexual orientation.I thought of looking at what the bible says but instead let me first share a part of my personal story.As you read it do not feel that I am looking to say we share charactersistics.This is just my journey.
    I am an effeminate guy. I am the type that guys will always whisper about.That guy with that swinging gait in high school or that loved to play kati with the girls in primary, thats me.In high school I was called Elton John, never mind that then I was only beginning o be aware of my sexuality.
    I was not molested by a male figure in my life. I have two parents who have raised me the best way they know how.When I hear all the father wounds guys have I praise God for my father.My father and mother never even once reprimanded me for the way i am. They have always loved me and affirmed me.I have issues with him but I think everyone does with their father.
    When I came out to myself as gay i was 19. It really troubled me because I had given my life to Jesus when I was in class 6. I did not want to engage in mindless sex .At the time, the thought of anal sex disgusted me.I wanted the deep friendships that I had been able to have with some of my classmates in highschool.Those nice enough to disregard the rumourmills.Hopefully one of them could translate to something more.
    I do not wat to bore you with long stories but one day I sat down and asked myself what it was i wanted in a man.I wanted a man who was self assured, confident, able to take charge,MASCULINE UNLIKE ME. Largely because i thought I was quite deficient in this area. All this was going on in me while I continued in my lifestyle.
    It was not until I read a book by John Elderidge “Wild at heart” that I came face to face with my personal issues.I felt i was not a man and in some convoluted way i thought by being with a man I could have some of that. Then i learnt that just because a guy has a certain gait and acts in a particular way makes him more of a valid man that i am.But most of all i realized that I could ask God for a sense of masculinity in Him and he would give it to me.
    This freed me emotionally so much!!! I remember feeling i could stand on a rooftop and scream for joy.God is the giver of all good things.Even a sense of manhood. Now,I am not saying I am a beer guzzling macho guy that drinks in a bar but that I got to understand part of my problem.I still love to cook ad watch chickflicks and sometimes I will roll my eyes or cross my legs.Hey,thats just me! But it isn’t that i then became attracted to women, I still am attracted to men.
    As i continued to soul search (I stopped any dating or sex for 2 years to figure the whole thing out) i came across an article by Donny Mclurkin on his struggles with homosexuality.He said that at a point in his life he had to call homosexual acts what they are ,sins.he had to face the bitter truth that that which he wanted to engage in was sin. You might want to be in a committed healthy homosexual partnership,it is still sinful.He said that the bible says that there is a time to love and a time to hate. Hate what? hate sin. As hard as it is, when you read the bible do you see it affirming you as a homosexual and the life you aspire to.If not ,don’t mince words about it call it what it is.Sinful.
    Romans 1:26
    For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

    27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
    1st corinthians 6:9
    Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual
    offenders
    Look at the above verses of the bible and tell me what you see.
    My dear brother,I came to the conclusion that it was then up to me.I cannot blame the devil or God.God gave me free will to choose.I admit to you this is the point at which I am.Do I give up that sexual identity I have come to be comfortable with or follow Gods plan for me.We are all works in progress.
    Remember this,God is the giver of all good things.James 1:5. The reason God seeks to free you is not just so that you can be free from the chains of the devil but to enable you pursue His purposes.
    God provides a way out for all of us.CORINTHIANS 10:13 (Paul)
    13 There has no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted above that you are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that you may be able to bear it.
    I am sorry.This has become way longer than I intended.
    What am I saying? Do you recognise that homosexual acts are sinful and that a homosexual orientation is sinful. Then what is your attitude to it.No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. For me, as I speak to you , i would love to despise the sin.It isnt easy and it is a decision I have to make.May God bless you as you seek Him. If you seek Him with all your heart, your soul and mind then you will find Him.
    Ask away if there are specific issues that you think I should address.

    Like

    • Hi Anonymous,

      I was really waiting for your response. I can identify with you when you say you are effeminate…basically that is also me or had been me for a long time, but being gay does not mean you have to be defined by feminism ‘I don’t know carry a hand bag, put on make-up etc’…those childish things I left behind a long time ago.

      Let me go straight to my point…I like that we are discussing from the Bible point of view. I tend to find that the fact you did not quote from 1:18-25 kinda brings the whole message out of context (see below)

      18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

      21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

      24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

      My main emphasis here is verse 23 and verse 25…I am not an Idol worshiper nor have I ever worshiped any idols before. I have been brought up in a Christian home and with Christian values, all my schooling has been in Christian based schools, I accepted Christ while in class 7(Seven)…so why would God give me over to something that He reserved for those who exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images or who exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator??? My friend I do not fit in either criteria, so why would God give me over to these things???

      Additionally the term ‘homosexual offender’ what does it really mean? According to my research so far this are some of the definitions I have come across…

      1) A homosexual offender is someone who commits a sexual crime against the same sex, or engages in homosexual prostitution. Homosexual offense applies to both heterosexual and homosexual offenders, but actually, most homosexual offenders are heterosexual. In prison, men who are not gay engage in “homosexual” sex, and the perpetrator is considered a homosexual offender. Any sexual offense to another person has to do with power and aggressions and never has anything to do with sex.

      2) I Corinthians 6:9

      King James Version:

      9…Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [malakoi], nor abusers of themselves with mankind [arsenokoitai], 10 Nor thieves…, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

      New International Version

      9…Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes [malakoi] nor homosexual offenders [arsenokoitai] 10 nor thieves…will inherit the kingdom of God.

      Revised Standard Version–1952 edition:

      9…Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals [malakoi and arsenokoitai], 10 nor thieves…, will inherit the kingdom of God.

      Revised Standard Version–1971 edition:

      9…Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts [malakoi and arsenokoitai], 10 nor thieves…, will inherit the kingdom of God.

      A comparison of how the two Greek words (malakoi and arsenokoitai) are translated in the different versions shows that translations often, unfortunately, become the interpretations of the translators. In I Cor. 6:9 Paul lists the types of persons who will be excluded from the kingdom of God and for some he uses the Greek words malakoi and arsenokoitai. KJ translates the first “effeminate,” a word that has no necessary connection with homosexuals. The NIV translates the first “male prostitutes” and the second, “homosexual offenders”. The RSV in its first edition of 1952 translated both words by the single term, “homosexuals”. In the revised RSV of 1971, the translation “homosexuals” is discarded and the two Greek words are translated as “sexual perverts”; obviously the translators had concluded the earlier translation was not supportable.

      Malakoi literally means “soft” and is translated that way by both KJ and RSV in Matt. 11:8 and Luke 7:25. When it is used in moral contexts in Greek writings it has the meaning of morally weak; a related word, malakia, when used in moral contexts, means dissolute and occasionally refers to sexual activity but never to homosexual acts. There are at least five Greek words that specifically mean people who practice same-gender sex. Unquestionably, if Paul had meant such people, he would not have used a word that is never used to mean that in Greek writings when he had other words that were clear in that meaning. He must have meant what the word commonly means in moral contexts, “morally weak.” There is no justification, most scholars agree, for translating it “homosexuals.”

      “Arsenokoitai” is not found in any extant Greek writings until the second century when it apparently means “pederast”, a corrupter of boys, and again in the sixth century when it is used for husbands practicing anal intercourse with their wives. “Arsenokoitai” is made up of two parts: “arsen” means “man”; “koitai” means “beds.” Although the word in English Bibles is interpreted as referring to homosexuals, we can be fairly certain that this is not the meaning that Paul wanted to convey. If he had, he would have used the word “paiderasste.” That was the standard Greek term at the time for sexual behavior between males. We can conclude that he probably meant something different than people who engaged in male-male adult sexual behavior. Some scholars think probably the second century use might come closest to Paul’s intention. If so, there is no justification for translating the word as “homosexuals.”

      As you can see my friend all these gaps are creating much confusion, and yesterday I asked am I condemning myself because I followed a teaching that was not based on the full truth and the understanding of the word of God?

      I am beyond the lust and short lived pleasures of one night stands…I want to live according to the will of my Creator, my God, my heavenly Father but I will not allow myself to sink in to self pity and depression because all I need is love and that love God will provide in His own way…not my way anymore but in His own way.

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  22. Dear Patrick,
    I don’t know if you understand me well. I don’t even know if I communicate with you well enough but there are some things that I need to say to you that have been in my heart for a long time.
    First, please understand that every day I am struggling. I am struggling with a big weight, which I don’t know if I can let go of. I am gay, I used to refuse and say that I don’t want that label but as time goes by I realize that it’s who I am. I don’t know how I am going to get rid of it. I don’t know if its rubbed off with an eraser, or washed off with water and chemicals, or even if the blood of Jesus can cleanse it. I don’t know. What I know, is that this has become a more and more difficult life, because I have to move from a world where I like men, am attracted to men to a world where I like women or am celibate. I don’t even know if I can be celibate. I am struggling though. I want you to know that every day I am struggling. When I wake up all I can think about is that on one part am a sinner, bound and chained and heading to hell and on the other side I know am a gay man, trapped in a world that does not accept me. I have prayed about this. I have thought about this. I know that I have to die to the flesh and be made alive in Christ, but I don’t know how to go about this.
    Patrick, you are my friend, and I don’t know if you can be here for me. Every time I approach you with this issue, you tell me to delete all my gay friends, and you tell me to avoid anything gay. You tell me to pray. You tell me that God will make a way. Now, I don’t know how God works, nobody really does. All I know is that as my friend, perhaps you haven’t approached this from the point of view that am a human being, with weakness, with desires, with issues, who isn’t fully made and finished. I try, really, I do.
    Patrick, I need you. I need you to be there for me. I know that men find it very difficult to ask for help. I don’t, because you are my best friend. You accept me for who I am, but not wholly who I am. You only accept only my Christ-Patrick side. My gay friends accept my gay side. None of them accepts God; just the same way none of the people in church accept me as gay Philip. Haha, gay Philip, sounds funny. I need you to accept me as I am, the unfinished me. The raw me. Me and my heart. Me and my mind. Me and my spirit. Me as a complete being. There is so much that I can do. I don’t know if you realize it.

    Patrick, one day I will be an old man. An old man, and I don’t know how that will work out. Will I have a wife? Do you think I will have a wife? And children, do you think I will have children? What about a husband Patrick, do you think I will have a husband? I am distraught. I don’t know how my future will be. Ever since I was young, I was supposed to have a wife. A wife and four children, named Daniel, Jonathan, Gabriel and Lilly. We would live in a mansion, and have a villa at the coast and we would end up rich and happy. Now, all that is but a dream. A wisp of smoke and a blur ,that will float away and disappear. I don’t even know how I am going to turn out by twenty eight. I don’t know how things will be by forty. I have had a boyfriend already, and am apparently in the process of getting another one. I like this guy. I like him a lot. The way you liked Angie, and Lucy and Fiona. I like him like that. Maybe I will end up living with him until I die. I know you will love and accept me as I am, as you did when Kwame was around. That is the reason you are my best friend. You love and accept me as I am. I am not sure though if you understand me. I don’t know what your expectations of me are.
    Patrick, we have talked about purpose a lot. We have discussed Bible verses about it. It would be interesting to know what God’s purpose for my life is. I have understood a lot about my career and the work I’m supposed to do. It is a big load. I even imagine I shall die for the sake of the gospel, somewhere in the Middle East. Am fine with that, it does not scare me. There is though, something I have not fully wrapped my mind around. What about my heart? What about my joy? What about the peace of mind? Am I to have a wife? Will I make her happy? Will I love her? Will she be the person to spend my old age with? Patrick, I don’t know. I am confused. I don’t blame God for anything. I am not that kind of person and you know it. I have never blamed anyone for anything that happened to me, because I have been in control off all my circumstances to some extent. I have tried. I am not though, in control of who I love. I am not in control of everything in my future. So what do I do, Patrick? Where do I look for answers when I know that some things with God are not to be questioned? What really is my purpose? Therefore I ask in dissimilarity, will I have a husband? Will he love me? Will we be together forever? Will God accept us? Will God love us? I don’t know Patrick.

    Patrick, I am scared. I rarely show it, but I am scared. I am scared that I am walking in sin and I don’t know how to get out. Yes, I want out. There are times when I wish the issues in my life were as simple as working hard and getting a family and acquiring land and living happily ever after. I wish the issues were those of fighting over who squeezed the toothpaste the wrong way and who left the toilet seat up. Patrick, I am scared of being alone. I am scared of dying and I am scared of going to hell. I am scared of losing my purpose, and letting the greatness that is in me go to waste. Patrick, I am scared of not being able to love. I am scared of walking this world aimlessly and all I have to show is the certificates for leadership and achievements at work. I am so scared that sometimes I wonder if I am missing the point.

    Patrick, I know how open you are with your mother. I know how you love her and she loves you. The same goes for your father and brother but not in equal extent and measure. Despite all this, I envy you. I envy you because you have no secrets to hide from them. You have nothing you are holding back. I, on the other hand, am hiding in plain sight. I am hiding the fact that I am gay from my family. My mother and my sister hate gay people. They are gay bashers. They make fun of , insult, get disgusted by and go to all lengths to show that they detest gay people. Patrick I don’t know how to deal with that. I don’t know whether to ever come out to them or not. I have already had an incident where my parents sort of found out. I was taken for prayers, deliverance and counseling. I seemed demon possessed to my parents. Now here I am, eight years down the line, still dealing with the same issues. I suspect that Albert knows. He has been acting funny. He has become too mushy and close to me. There is either something he wants or something he has to say and he doesn’t know how to say it. Then there is dad. Dad has always been aloof. He seems never to have anything to quite say. If I come out to him, I know I will get a lecture and a sermon combined for two hours, followed by prayers. I don’t know how well he will take it, but I don’t expect to be badly off after.

    There are also my two school best friends, Moses and James. Moses hates all gay people. He thinks they should be locked up in concentration camps with Muslims. James is more tolerant. He tries to understand. He tries to show empathy. He says all gay people need is love. He is our C.U chairman. I don’t know how to deal with them. I think Moses will easily hate me. He will distance himself. He has nothing to do with sinners like me since God has been so faithful to him. He is doing well. He has money. As I look at myself, I really don’t know what to say. I really know what I want to feel though. I want to feel loved. I want to be loved and accepted. I have millions friends. Everyone around me is close to me. Despite all this, I still feel unloved and alone. All the people I want to love and accept me, can’t or don’t. All the people I need are not there. Patrick, are you there? Are you really there?
    Patrick, my point is that I need you. I need you to stand with me. To truly and firmly stand. I need you to walk with me. I have really fallen. I have gotten lost. I have also lost everything that I was. I am not the same person you met years ago. I have been reaching out silently. I don’t know if you have been there but I have been reaching out. Please help me. Please help me find the way.
    I know I have written this a lot like a story, but it’s the truth, and it’s from my heart to you.

    Like

  23. From all I’ve read, I think that those who are struggling in this area, need to sit and talk, and establish a walk with those who have overcome. Maybe a fellowship for accountability partners. If Mavuno could host this, I would come. I’ve struggled for many years with the same issue, and I need someone who relates and has overcome to walk with me through it. I desire to be righteous, but I realise that I need help, both from God, and from men like me who overcame.

    Like

    • anonymous22@10 Says:

      Samson
      It would be hypocritical of me to say I have come through victorious and won, but If you need need to meet someone to share your experience with I am willing.This has largely been a lonely walk for me.There is practically no one for me to share this with in my life. I guess it would be helpful.However for a more formal structure I know a gentleman at Transform kenya who lived as a gay man.he got saved and is married.God transformed his life.Would you like to meet me, he was my accountability partner and it helped a great deal

      Like

  24. anonymous22@10 Says:

    @samson, I meant would you like to meet him?

    Like

  25. I agree with Samson, some support group of sorts needs to be formed. I have a friend who was also brought up in the church, is mature spritually but struggles with attraction to the same sex. She’s been looking for a support group that shares her values and beliefs but none has been forthcoming…could steps be taken towards the realisation for such a group?…pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease

    Like

  26. It’s only after you’v walked in the shoes of a gay guy that you would know how difficult it is. The society judges you, you can’t fit in with your family and worst death feels like the only place you’ll find rest.

    I have and still am struggling with this. It’s gotten to the point where av given up on God and the church. If this is the struggle God gave me to face then He was very unfair to me.

    I never chose to be in this position neither do I want it, honestly, av tried it all to turn straight but nothing has worked for me. I even gave up on sex with guys but am these feelings are still part of me, its like am cursed or something.

    I see my married gay friends cheat on their wives and honestly I don’t want that to happen to me. I’d rather not marry all together and live by myself as compared to having a miserable marriage.

    If I should find my identity in Christ, show me how to, and I will.

    Am willing to do anything to turn from this messed up lifestyle.

    Like

  27. anonymous22@10 Says:

    @KT.I am unable to navigate the blog so as to stick to the thread.Sorry about that.
    If you have ever watched the movie”Doubt” you will remember near the end where Sister Aloysius (Meryl Streep) admits to sister James” I have doubt………….I have such doubts”

    I hear all you say and it is with a weariness that I debate it.Not caused by you (the weariness), but by the different potential interpretations of the bible and that it is possible I may be losing out due to a misguided interpretation of the Bible.” I have doubts ………I have such doubts”.I too would love closure.

    We could debate this for a while but I will suggest this. When I was at my lowest I was introduced to a gentleman who has been a great help in my struggle. I mentioned him before and I could introduce you to him. I could even accompany you to meet him. He too was (is, don’t know if you can stop) gay. What do you think?

    Like

  28. I would definitely like to meet him anonymous. Just hit me up on deluisamson@gmail.com and we can discuss. Also, if there is anyone else who would like to attend, share, pray or walk together, just use the same email and we can plan.

    Like

  29. I am glad you are speaking so openly about this issue.

    I find biblical teaching to be celebratory of human sexuality (Song of Songs), and welcoming of the differences in our sexual identities as we see in Isaiah 56:1-5 and Acts 18:25-39,

    And Jesus speaks of gender variance in describing different kinds of eunuchs: “For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the dominion of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.”

    Virginia Mollenkott offers this commentary: “Jesus’ words about eunuchs in Matthew 19:12 reveal an accepting, respectful attitude that ought to be the norm for the modern church: “For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth” includes at the very least all inter-sexual people; “and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others” includes post-operative transsexuals; “and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven” includes not only pre-operative and non-operative transsexuals but all other transgenderists, celibates and homosexuals who do not engage in reproductive sex.”

    I recommend reading this short exploration of scripture on this topic http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=1265
    “The crux of the matter, it seems to me, is simply that the Bible has no sexual ethic. There is no biblical sex ethic. The Bible knows only a love ethic, which is constantly being brought to bear on whatever sexual mores are dominant in any given country, or culture, or period…What is the Word that the Spirit speaks to the churches now, in the light of Scripture, tradition, theology, psychology, genetics, anthropology and biology?”

    I also love what Bishop Ssenyonjo has to say: http://vimeo.com/10582664
    “The most essential bit of a human being, that is love. If you don’t allow somebody to express his love to a fellow human being, you are killing that person.”

    The gay and trans people I know enrich the kin-dom of God in so many ways! Keep up the conversations! People of faith can be in solidarity with difference.

    Like

  30. Jonabgood Says:

    Hi pray for us as we accept the truth about our sexauslity

    Like

  31. Gay Atheist Says:

    Dear commenters of this blog,

    It is very sad that after all is said and done on this thread, Mavuno and it’s hetero-normative community have nothing to offer its LGBTIQ congregation or LGBTIQ people in general. You guys are very ambivalent to the questions of rights, you say nothing about the violence LGBTIQ people face daily and have nothing but condemning Biblical verses to queers who are conflicted about the way they are. Even from people on this thread who identify as gay, none of you has spoken against the “ex-gay” man who commented here while professional advice over the issue has been that gay “rehabilitation” is a harmful therapy (see here: http://www.drthrockmorton.com/article.asp?id=1) It is also very disheartening that the religious gays here would have us believe that giving up sex to keep one’s faith is the only way for LGBTIQ Christians. Sexuality is an integral part of us. It is very unethical and immoral to deny a group expression of sexuality because it does not conform to what the majority says or does.

    Even the basic level of acceptance (whoever has not sinned, may he cast the first stone) is not clearly and openly articulated, only with conditions and with deference to heterosexual authority.

    The article, in its dismissal of persons who identify as transgender, propagates gender norms and hetero-sexism, the belief that men and women have essentialist roles and that nothing exists outside this binary. This is potentially anti-woman: whose position in society according to hetero-sexism is at home, performing unpaid domestic labor and exchanging her reproductivity for resources which the man has gained from the public realm. Transgender persons face a lot of violence for their choice to live their true gender, for undergoing surgery and therapy to this effect. There is nothing in the Bible that condemns one for being transgender. Even the ambiguous verses mentioned here can be interpreted diversely.

    As I write this, I realize that this blog post misses a lot of information and does not bring out the whole picture. For instance, nothing else is said after mentioning intersex persons, who sometimes undergo surgeries at the behest of their guardians which turn out very badly as they grow older (like, where a parent chooses one sex for their intersex child, and the child grows up with their sex and gender identity conflicted). What would Christians say about these issues? What would they interpret the Bible to say. Must the Bible comment on everything in a complete and adequate manner? Is Christian dogma unchanging even as society changes?

    In truth, there is nothing at the table of the mainstream Christian religion for LGBTIQ folk unless it is from a LGBTIQ friendly church. Unless the leadership and congregation of the Mavuno Church creates it, LGBTIQ members of the church will feel excluded, their lives and contributions negated and themselves judged by fellow “moral-majority” sinners.

    I would have wished that members of the Kenyan middle class, who flock this church, would have more progressive thoughts on the interpretation of scripture but I guess this is too much to ask. LGBTIQ people need acceptance, not mere tolerance or a shallow discussion about their lives. The congregation of Mavuno Church, as well as its leadership, need to deal with the very difficult aspects of sexual orientation and gender identity, about desire, expression and living in ways that we find to be “immoral”, “wrong” or even “disgusting”. There are no easy ways out of here, no easy answers. The only way out is to think ethically and progressively about this not only deferring to scripture in uncritical ways.

    Yours truly,

    Gay Atheist

    Like

    • Dear Gay Atheist,

      Once all the technical terms and complications are taken away, all that’s left is Jesus, Gay and Love as the core issues in this conversation. Your analysis of the Bible may be superior to mine, given you have studied it and subjected it to critical thought, but you cannot speak of anything unless you truly experience it and the power that it has. Come back to church, pray and seek God, and surrender your will to Him, then analyse the Bible for people to listen. And yes, I am gay, so I’m not saying this as a pious Christian church leader. Some of us don’t need argument or fighting, we just need love and Jesus. Samsondelui
      Sent from my BlackBerry®

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  32. Church as Safe Space–Allies and Communities of Support

    A church can truly be an LGBTIQ friendly church by welcoming people wherever they are on their journey. We can work to create space for alternative perspectives, beginning with Jesus’ vision of Beloved Community where lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgendered and straight are all welcome and beloved members of the body. As we take communion, eucharist, we re-member the body of Christ. We are that body. We are dis-membered when we hate one another or even parts of ourselves: isolating, denigrating, castigating the outsider. We are re-membered when we welcome all the parts of ourselves and as we discover the richness of learning to live with one another in love.

    I pray for straight parent allies who can express their affirmation and love for their gay children. Jacob/Israel gives us a picture. You know his son David, the one dreaming dreams, and getting into awkward situations with his brothers? Jacob gave him a PRINCESS DRESS! If you check the Hebrew, that’s what that special garment was. How might David have felt when his father affirmed him so deeply with that gift? That didn’t clear up his problems with his siblings, but it sure offers a message for parents who know and could choose to affirm the true nature of their child. Allies need to speak out in love and defense of the giftedness of those of non-typical gender and/or sexuality expression.

    Kenneth Samuels stresses the need for sanctified safe spaces for being open and honest. He describes monthly gatherings inviting people affected and infected by HIV/AIDS into a safe space for people to tell their stories, to listen, pray, cry, and affirm one another. He suggests that the key for ministers is talking theologi-cally to one another about creating climates of honesty. He says,

    “I am particularly concerned…from the standpoint of the stigmatization that drives so much down low deceptive behavior…People feel so condemned and stigmatized that they are reluctant to be honest…We as ministers of the gospel …we have the responsibility to create a climate where people can practice honesty because that is what is going to help us stem the tide of this dreaded pandemic.” Rev. Kenneth L. Samuels, HIV-AIDS Roundtable 2010 Panelist #6, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Evj9JH_kZJU&feature=related

    Those in the church can be ethical and progressive and engage critically with scripture. The journey is exciting and liberating and will transform culture with the way of love, the truth of love, the life of love. Jesus is love. God is love.

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  33. Joseph (not David) was Jacob’s beloved son, gifted with a kthoneth pac, Genesis 37:3, II Samuel 13:8. My mistake, confusing my Bible heroes.

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