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This entry was posted on May 3, 2009 at 11:00 am and is filed under Mavuno Sermons. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
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Blog.Mavuno
May 3, 2009 at 6:23 pm
Dream Maker Give Me A dream! No more selfish living my pasi prayed a dangerous prayer for me.
Pastor M yenyewe even your preaching style was different there was a fire in your face, it felt like you had a fire shut up in your bones!! I WANT THAT!
Baraka tele!
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May 3, 2009 at 6:58 pm
Thanks pastor M…..
today’s sermon confirmed something I have felt God is calling me back to for a long time now, but I kept looking at all the ways in which it is inconvenient, all the ways it might be unsafe.
even with all the fear / anxiety though, I made a decision a week ago to join a group that shares this vision, I believe it was no coincidence that i did that right before this sermon series…. this day I stand, I step up and say Lord use me as you will…
am agreeing with Gogetter, Pastor M you preached like a man on fire!!! God bless you and may he renew you daily as you step up daily to walk in his vision. May he protect you and your family and May he surround you and guard you same way he surrounded and protected Israel with mountains.
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May 3, 2009 at 9:26 pm
Pastor M, whateva u smoked behind the dome before 2nd Service, PASS IT ON… You were just awesome and may God just bless u coz i know many dudes identified to today’s summon. For me my journey to find that one Purpose, that one reason as to why im here has and is still hectic, im just there, my compass run out of batteries( its those new i-compasses that uses power) and trying to find that one thing that im passionate about, that one thing id die for, Rugby is the only thing that comes to mind. RUGBY is lyk a way of lyf for me, she is just beautiful. AM I NORMAL? The other thing that i feel is of much concern is the different situations that we have at our homes, husbands that dont provide or who even go tha extent of being physically abusive, it pains me and i just feel that something shud be done other than the kawaida, there shud be a place that the abused can lay their claims and get counsel, and of course tha backlog of cases in our “Honourable Courts” whaaaaat? Someome tell me Im normal….
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May 3, 2009 at 11:47 pm
Hi pastor M. All i can say is wow! yes, you were on fire like never before! And God used you to answer many concerns i have had. I discovered my purpose and decided to leave work and dive right into it. I knew what i needed to do but for the longest time ignored it coz i enjoyed the comfort/ security of my job! God realized i would never leave and man, did He shake my boat or what?! I knew it was Him saying its time. As i continue to pursue my purpose (which by the way involves my passion, my spiritual gifts, my experience and my personality traits-all working together) I have moments when i wonder if am really doing the right thing. i wonder if God really called me or it was all in my head! I start thinking maybe i should just go back to employment! You know why, because the place am in right now is inconveniencing, unsafe and sometimes uncool! Hearing you say those words just confirmed am in the right place! I had a monthly salary which i don’t have now so my spending is at a minimum as i must focus on growing my business. But I have never lacked! Its been 10months now and i want to say that God has been my provider, just like what it says in the bible about the birds in the air, He has really hooked me up! What stepping into my purpose has taught me is to TRUST in God. He is the one who called me to stop living for me and start living for Him. He has never disappointed… This is just a descent before I ascend, because His blessings make rich and add no sorrow! I therefore want to encourage all you out there who are where i was before i stepped into the water or where I am right now that He who will begin a good work in you will see it to completion! Step out and be a fearless influencer! I am looking forward to the next 3 sundays. May God continue to use you. God bless!
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May 4, 2009 at 7:29 am
yesterday i realised that i really limit what God can do! i ask / dream for “safe” things,stuff that am sure he can give and not what i believe him to give.Pastor M thank you for opening my eyes and for the lovely summon that you gave.am new at mavuno,been coming for a month now and i love the series that you guys have.i believe that by the time this one is over God would have revealed to me his vision for me. i cant wait for mizizi to start as i hear its a life changing experience! i need to encounter with God and not just to read / hear about Him and i trust that is where its all gonna start. i have never felt so at home like the way i feel in this church.. thanks guys and God bless and increase MAVUNO!!!
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May 4, 2009 at 9:42 am
Even me I was feeling that vibe right there, Amen!
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May 4, 2009 at 11:53 am
No passion no vision,deadly,hilarious,wow….
this sermon just hit the point right home
it reminded me of my relative who’s been in a very (extremely)abusive marriage but she couldnt walk out of it,reason?this has been her life for the past 10 + years and so how would she even entertain the thot of leaving this man?she felt’safe and insulated’ in that marriage
but thats not what God wanted for her,He had plans,bigger ones for her but all along she was busy shattering the vision… nwei to cut the long story short she discovered God’s vision for her and chose to pursue it and to dream God’s dream!!!
True true true vision can be uncool,inconvenient and unsafe,but as the good book says without vision we(the people) are unrestrained
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May 4, 2009 at 3:59 pm
I took one step forward, then two steps back,
I took three steps forward – then I saw her face,
A beautiful child she was – but why did she look so afraid,
I knew she needed me, but could I be all I could be for her?
She let out a cry, and instinctively I took her into my arms
Is that what it means – to Dare to Dream?
I looked around this home – I needed to know her story,
They told me she had been found in a dustbin,
Had her mother left her there to die?
They said she must have been a day or two old
And tears rolled down my cheeks,
What a way to be welcomed to the world?
Is that what it means – to Dare to Dream?
The lady said she needed to be fed, she gave me a bottle for her,
But the little girl didnt have any energy to even pull on the bottle,
We discovered that we had to feed her using a spoon,
At least we got her to take some before she took her nap.
But every time I tried to put her in her little bed,
She opened her eyes, as if begging me not to leave.
Is that what it means – to Dare to Dream?
I tried to assure her, but I knew I had to leave some time.
I thought of the tens of others, who were sheltered in this home,
My heart broke to pieces as the hours went by,
knowing that at the end of the day, I had to leave this little girl in the home,
I held on as long as I could, but at some point I had to leave,
She was crying when I left and I was crying too.
Is that what it means – to Dare to Dream.
That night I knew I had to do something;
There had to be more to life than going through the motions
It was not enough to visit and just hold that little girl,
I had to do more for her and for all other children like her,
I might not reach all of them – but I could start with her right,
I think I know what my calling is –
I think I now know what it means to Dare to Dream.
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May 4, 2009 at 4:55 pm
Hi all, thanks for some great comments. Keep them coming! And may the Dream Giver reveal His dream for all of us. @ Njeru, your passions sound like they’d really connect with the Life Group that’s organizing the rugby league for boys. @ Geegee, you write very well. I was moved by your story. I’d like to hear how it ends!
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May 4, 2009 at 5:29 pm
GeeGee… deep stuff! deep stuff!
At the end of this month, I shall be a 1 year old mavunite! Doesnt time fly?
The dark side of greatness made me realise that indecision, fear, procrastination were the things that were holding me back to pursuing my dreams… let me also add confusion.
Being at Mavuno for the 11 months now has just been really great. God has been aligning my ways to His ways, my thoughts to His thoughts, my dreams to His dreams and this has been possible through serving at Mavuno.
Serving @ Mavuno, in line with my 1001 passions, has helped / is helping me:
– rediscover my passions
– discover new passions
– see the bigger picture
– have a kingdom focus in pursuing my passions
– grow in my areas of weakness
– bless others
– encourage others in pursuing a similar vision
– find cheer leaders for my vision
– enjoy life
– hear and experience God
My purpose is still fuzzy but serving is just helping me see that path.
To Pst. M, walalala!, I am liking the sermon… I have not stopped thinking of the “TRUE NORTH” sermon series and definitely I look forward to dare to dream…
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May 4, 2009 at 5:32 pm
This I must just say…
Thumbs up to Kileleshwa Life Group!!! I was like what??? Groove awards! Yaani I cannot wait for next year! May the Lord continue to bless the work of your hands.
Jars of clay! that is really great stuff!
May the rest of us (life groups) be challenged!
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May 4, 2009 at 6:13 pm
Dare to Dream! As i was pondering the sermon in my quiet time today I came to an understanding that there are several stages to seeing your vision and having passion for a fullfilled life in the Lord just to share them in my own layman understanding this is my take and digestion of the message;
i. Hearing the Call : its what Pastor M was talking about when we get angry and passionate about a specific issue over and over again we need to realise that that is the Call.
ii. We then need to Listen and See : We listen to what the anger is directing us to and see what we are meant to do about it.
iii. In order to invite the Lord into our Vision – Passion – Purpose we need to come to a place of repentance. The Lord will not work with us if we are not straight with him. We need to come to a place of repentane and forgiveness so that we can walk with Him.
iv. Proclamation: The Lord will then start moving and if youl move with Him according to his plan. At this point people will call you crazy – yes you will be out to save the nation singlehandedly and people will ask what you can change alone but isnt He a God who moves mountains. Most of the time the people who bring change are first considered crazy/uncool till it happens – remember when we thought Wangari Mathai was mad fighting for her trees and Uhuru Park? Obama? all these were mad people. Nelson Mandela? Coming closer to home there’s a young lad who is calling on 700 men for Operation Jericho right here in Nairobi to pray for our leadership. It sure it uncool.
iv. A new Exodus : When the time is right and you have gone through refinement for assignment then the Lord will reveal to you a new Exodus. A life full of wonders and joy, He will give you peace at heart and you will enjoy what you are doing because you are working according to His plan not yours. This may be the point where you’re not earning a 6 digit take home but you’re richer than the person earning it blinded. Or you could have the 6 digit income and people wonder why you spend it all on Charity not on yourself because life is more than riches of the world.
And guess what? In John 14 : 1-7 and Isaiah 55 : 1-13 we have the Lord watching our back in the Holy Spirit allthe promises we need are in these scriptures. We need to take hold of the resources of the Kingdom, we will be comforted when low or sad, inspired in times of doubt and encouraged whenever our footsteps began to falter and slow.
Father forgive us, for we lean more onto our own understanding than yours, show us how to take hold of your resources, to see our vision through your eyes and accept your will for us that your plans for us may come to pass and we will soar like eagles and proclaim how soverign, holy and mighty you are.
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May 4, 2009 at 8:48 pm
pastor m that was a word in due season. i’ve been grappling with the issue of purpose for a long time. i have a very good job and i make a tidy salo. however i have to syke myself every morning to go to work. i’ve always known there’s more to life than this routine.
your qn about what really ticks me off made me realise that i am deeply grieved by the way we kenyans are living like second class citizens in our own country allowing foreigners to eat the best of our land while we watch. it makes my blood boil!!! why do we think others are better than we are yet with God we can do ALL things. i was encouraged to hear that you also believe strongly about empowering Africa and believing in ourselves. i’m believing that my steps will be ordered by God in my quest to fulfil my purpose and build local enterprise and pride.
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May 5, 2009 at 9:30 am
Pastor M! walala!! that was an anointed sermon! Sitting at the front i could almost feel the fire you were radiating! That was AWESOME!! May God continue to use you and increase you and refresh you!
My passion is for young women/girls and though this has been confirmed by several people I have still held back. As my friend Kate was talking on Sunday its like she was speaking for me yet I have never told her how I feel! it hurts me deeply and makes me so angry to see girls not reaching their potential and selling themselves short. I am mentoring a few girls but I feel like I need to do more and get together with people who share my passion and just claim back this girls for God.
May God give me his strength and his wisdom as I endeavor to walk in his will for me. May he use my life to minister to these girls who I so desperately want to reach.
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May 5, 2009 at 12:52 pm
@ Njeru : kindly join Jars Of Clay every Saturday morning at 9.30 a.m. to 12 noon for the rugby sessions at Highway Secondary School. We need more men of God out there to mentor and nuture the young boys as they grow physically and mentally into fearless influencers.
@ Pastor M : You basically just kicked me off my seat and asked me to get off my comfort zone. That was painful. I realised that Wangari Mathai had a vision over 10 years ago when she was fighting for her trees and Uhuru Park didnt we all think she was mad. I ask God to give me the strength and understanding that its his masterplan I am using not mine. I have passion for the family unit. Our nation, our children, our sisters and brothers are all suffering because the family has gone crazy. Daddy is making money to buy his Range Rover, Mummy is working hard for her MBA to buy the Mercedes and hang with the right groupies, mum & dad know they need to live on the other side of the highway; for their children to go to private schools where they will have music, ballet, sports classes over the weekends, as daddy catches up with the boys and mummy goes to the spa to look the part come sunday when the families meet for sunday brunch at a 5 star hotel and Monday when she needs to power dress for the board meeting and keep the look going for the week. I feel for the child in the home the one with a comfortable bed to sleep in and the one living in a tin shack; all the parents are so busy working hard to maintain their status quo in society as the family falls apart. The child is in the mercy of the driver who will molest her, the househelp who will call them names and the school teacher who will tell them they will never make it. The child is finding their way into life and we blame them when they get high on crack since they’ve learnt from the idiot box (tv) that being high is a heavenly feeling, we get mad at them when the social divide between the rich and the poor forces the child from the tin shack to burn our property and stone us for his suffering, btw he is our watchman’s teenage son. I have a passion to get families to know what God says about the family unit and the effect it has on society. If we save the family we will save a nation. I have started the journey albeit in a small way. I have a vision womens forum which identifies with women who are in search of God’s own heart – women who understand that we can mend the decayed fabric of society – women who understand that we can turn things if we have our heart in the right place and the men can be called back into their rightful place by God. I am angry at parents who turn to leaders and they cannot do what God appointed them to do first ie. Manage their own homes. I wish to be in a position of leadership which would challenge the society to go back to the family values of fearing God, respect, honesty and most of all love which surpasses all understanding. I believe in the power of a woman led by God to bring us back to Eden and Eden we shall return if we are ready to make a sacrifice.
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May 5, 2009 at 1:33 pm
@Tumaini I so feel you, I was one of those who does not know what am here for but when Pastor L was doing the Return to Eden, I found myself wondering suppose we had a women’s Gideon’s Torch (of course appropriately named) and when I read your post this came to mind don’t know what you have in mind but am going to follow this path blessings
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May 5, 2009 at 2:21 pm
@Gogetter, I feel your great opinion on Women’s Gideon Touch. I love praying especially as a group. I will pray until this women ministry kicks off in Jesus name, Amen. Infact let us take the BIG step and start it. We just have to set up the day and time. Then the appropriate name will follow later.
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May 5, 2009 at 2:29 pm
This sermon came to me when I was down,out and unsure if I wanted to deal with God anymore.I was not coming to church that sunday because God was not making sense no more.Through the sermon,I was just crying and wondering why God had to send you(Pst M) to talk to me.I do know my purpose in life,and just like Jonah God caught up with me during the mizizi retreat and my running ended…… At this point I advice everyone who has not done mizizi to do it.I can go on and on.Today is Wednesday and for the first time in 2weeks i can have a genuine smile and I have no tears.For all those who want to know what their purpose is God will give you.Just as Pst M said,it aint cool.I have cried my way to God for solutions but waaaah,it aint easy but He will check in.Thank you for the sermon.God Bless.You did pray powerful prayers…
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May 5, 2009 at 4:12 pm
@ Tumaini, please give us the contacts of your vision women’s forum and how we can participate. I’m sure there are many of us who would be interested in bringing about change as a group.
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May 5, 2009 at 5:16 pm
@ Pastor M,
I enjoyed the sermon this week, though there was something that distracted me from concentrating as I should have.
When you stood at the pulpit and read from ‘The Message’ by Eugene Peterson, and recommended it to the church I was quite shocked. I have heard about this bible paraphrase before and most of the commentary was negative, this bible is allegedly ‘New Age’, a quick search on the internet reveals well documented proof on the same.
Sometime back I had asked my Mizizi facilitator about Rick Warren’s ‘Purpose Driven Life’ because there have also been allegations of Rick Warren’s involvement in The New Age Movement. He promised to get in touch with the Church leaders and get back to us but we have not heard from him yet.
Considering that Rick Warren’s ‘Purpose Driven Life’ is recommended in the Mizizi course book and Mavuno’s New Believer’s Manuals, and now you are preaching from The Message???????
Really, I love Mavuno and think I have found a place where I can grow spiritually but according to me these are serious concerns that need clarification.
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May 6, 2009 at 8:03 am
@ Deb I surely agree, today morning I was praying and telling God I want to mind His business and that if this is what He wants then sawa, He needs to show us the blueprint of how to carry it on. I was thinking of talking to the women who have been selected as lifegroup leaders after the Mizizi season 1 because I was in that class. It seems we can also get started right here in the blog church! In Mizizi I also realized that prayer is one of my spiritual gifts and I declare, am open to God’s leading. I was kinda reluctant because I have not gone through School of Prayer which I can only enrol in after 3 months (must be part of the refinement), but I know God has put a desire in me to pray and even given me that gifting.Please get in touch me @ wmunyua@gmail.com and lets start a conversation. Alternatively we can have here right here in the blog church so that as many people can be involved in it as possible
Baraka tele!
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May 6, 2009 at 8:37 am
@ Tuma…a big Amen, i totally feel you, av been shocked many tyms, av searched for answers to ma many concerns frm diff. Pple, av even read the church hstory to no success…
To add to your concrn, at times, da music throws me right to da world i came frm…..these are ma lowest moments…..imagine when am thrown off balance even b4 da real service begin! Av found maslf prayin thru such moments.
@ pst M, though i came in late, da sermon was great….God bless. It reminds me of the ‘True North,’ which did me in…..i found ma purpose, ma praya is; may da gud Lord rain His Blessings on u, & in return: may u lead His flock, to da most green palatable pastures!
Back to Tuma’s N ma many concerns….who is ready to sort us out?
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May 6, 2009 at 10:08 am
Wooh!
What do I say.Speechless for the last 3 days.Been thinking…still thinking and seeking God prayerfully about living his purpose and not my vision.
The last one year has been a build upto this and so many sermons have had a similar message which I think is no coincidence.e.g True North, Attitudes for Altitudes, blessed to be a blessing, and taking charge and excersing dominion.
The situation is very uncomfortable right now and am clouded with fear of the unkown.Am torn apart between maintaining the status quo and discovering Gods will for me.
Like many others that can identify with me, lets pray and seek God.
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May 6, 2009 at 10:18 am
Good morning Mavunites,
I am so happy and blessed to see women who are ready to stand out there to be counted and stand for the Lord and what a true christian woman would represent.
I am setting up a gmail address and you can reach me on tumaini@gmail.com in a couple of hours. We are actually brainstorming on this today and all i need is for you to send me mail saying you’re interested and we will surely get back to you. I have a vision starting with a monthly breakfast meeting for the ladies where we meet and pray for real issues and challenge ourselves to move our spirituality to the next level of being ‘uncool’ for the glory of God as we reach out to the world. Why monthly – because i would like us to have an impact and work on well researched material – and again we need to take baby steps let the ministry demand that we meet weekly or bi-weekly; for now i’m feeling a monthly meeting. This is not cast on stone its still discussable. We need to change the mindsets of many a Kenyan woman; we need to reclaim our position in building up honorable homes; we need to balance between the boardroom and the home to achieve the greatness we were called out to. We need to be WOMEN. It pains me when the world revolves around sex. I dont blame the women who went to the press. Sex is a tool used in the secular world to climb up the corporate ladder, to get a house, to feel loved – looking for love in the wrong place. Sex sells – look at the ads, look at the music, look at the fashion icons exposing all those acres of flesh, good looking men are now called eye candy – the woman is on the prowl, she has been brought down to that level. Do you blame her for using this as a tool. We now need to GO BACK TO EDEN where there was purity in an agile young good looking body – when i visualise Eve i see a perfect woman with a beautiful body that Adam was not going to misuse. We need to change the way the world looks at us and the change begins in us. Guys i could go about this the whole day so let me stop right here. Send me mail and we will set the world on fire putting things right as per the laid out masterplan in the Bible. We have been saved from the fangs of the devil we need to save the others out there. I was listening to a sermon on TBN yesterday where Pastor Chris said give someone something they dont value and dont know how to use and they will surely misuse it. How so true. We have no values being taught at home how do we expect to have men who know how to handle women, how do we expect young women to know how to handle themselves. Someone needs to go back to the drawing board and i’ve taken the leap of faith. I’m going out there and its going to be bed of roses with some beautiful flowers in it and some thorns to prick me along the way. Can we die for ourselves Women? The power is in our hands we’ve been washed white with the blood of Jesus. Dont we want to share this too with others? Let me stop now – lets talk and lets keep the fire burning.
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May 6, 2009 at 11:16 am
@Tumaini, AMEN to that!
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May 6, 2009 at 11:35 am
@tumaini see you on the email shortly and thanks
baraka tele!
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May 6, 2009 at 1:01 pm
go getter, shelly, tumaini, debs its all great! Am with you on this.
A miriams torch sounds very good.
After the sermon on “his name signals hope” I shared on the blog about how women can come together and share experiences that would bring healing.
Lets think thru this prayerfully.I would love to hear what the women pastors in church think about it.
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May 6, 2009 at 1:34 pm
Ladies,
confirmed email address is tumainileo@gmail.com
see you on the inbox
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May 6, 2009 at 1:51 pm
@ Tumaini asante sana have sent you a confirmation email. Perhaps we can get on the group on this @ Debs mentioned that she would talk to Pastor Sophie am sure we need the guidance of our women pastors on this. Perhaps you can start us out in a google group especially since we will be sharing ideas on this and it is the way to allow people to stay in the loop.
@ Delivered I guess God works in wonderful ways to make Himself glorified there are women coming together to not only share experiences but pray their way out of trouble, heartache, and into fearless influencing.
Let us allow the Lord to work in and through us to fulfil his mission
baraka tele!
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May 6, 2009 at 2:39 pm
thanks alot for what you are doing. i believe God is backing up our plans.. Barikiwa zaidi Tumaini
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May 6, 2009 at 3:11 pm
I am in my mid-thirties and yet to discover my purpose/passion in life … I have often prayed about this and still …. How did you guyz who know your passion/purpose know that was it (purpose)?
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May 6, 2009 at 3:53 pm
@Lee on Sunday Pastor M made a prayer for those of us who have not discovered what our dreams are and it was very simple; He said for us to ask the Dreamgiver to give us a Dream. How do you discover your purpose you ask the giver of purpose to align you to it He will.
I have heard people say that when you are waiting for God to speak to you about something, you should go on in the business of the things He is specific about for instance, spreading His love. Just walk in the way His word guides us to and He will surely show you what you should be doing all the best! I guess enrolling in Mizizi or attending Gideon’s Torch (if you are a guy) help you get closer in your relationship with God especially by realizing that He is able and willing
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May 6, 2009 at 4:07 pm
@ Lee,
Its something very simple actually; it is just the talents God placed inside of you, and something that you do with ease. It is a very personal gift, so don’t try to compare yourself with others or live out someone else’s purpose. Also, divorce purpose from your education and career because at times we do not have a choice in these matters.
For instance, you could be a pleasant communicator, a skilled doctor, a compassionate nurse, a talented musician, dancer, choreographer, designer,a good motivator, planner, cook, leader, etc. The list is endless.
One of the gifts God has given me is discernment (I can tell very easily when someone is trying to manipulate me). Also, when I look at a situation, I am able to see how it could easily end up, so I am good in analysis. I am also very bold so I usually ask questions on people’s behalf.
Purpose is a lifelong process; you pick up pieces here and there, so that when its all said and done, you did all that you were meant to do. I think its new each morning, so don’t let the age factor discourage you. People have found part of their purpose when they retire.
In short, just do a short analysis of what you enjoy and are good at, and use that every day to uplift the lives of your family and friends. Cheers and God bless.
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May 6, 2009 at 5:21 pm
@christian gal, thank you for making it so simple. to be honest i dint have a clear pic. of wat that means. thanks and God bless
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May 7, 2009 at 8:08 am
Not sure if this is the right place to post this but hey…I need to know!Is there a mizizi class at any other time apart from evenings,I’d really love to join and can’t believe I’ll miss Mizizi S02E01-E10..AGAIN!Something like Sunday mornings…?
Some poetic justice right there GeeGee,I thought I could write,now I’ll just take a back seat!
Pastor M: That was my 3rd Sunday at Mavuno,never mind that I’m not consistent,but…Sermon was ON POINT!
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May 7, 2009 at 8:34 am
@gidiotbidiot… ( that name! lol!) Don’t panic! there is a small mizizi class on Sunday morning beginning 17th of May so jump on that wagon and enjoy the ride! See you then and I can assure you it will make all the difference in your life!
blessings!
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May 7, 2009 at 9:16 am
Thanks Ciks,that’s a ray of hope right there!…”a small mizizi class…” haha…W@ tym?
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May 7, 2009 at 9:45 am
@Pastor M,
I have also made some observations in Mavuno as follows;
1. The doctrine on graduated tithing that is taught in Mizizi is false and unbiblical; I would like to be shown the verse in the Bible that supports this.
2. There is no official membership policy that I have heard of, which makes Mavuno basically a one man show.
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May 7, 2009 at 10:05 am
@ Tumaini, i really need to talk to u, as in really need to tok to u.Send me ur contacts tafadhali….
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May 7, 2009 at 11:21 am
@ gidiotbidiot… I say small because there is less capacity to run the Sunday classes as opposed to Tuesday.The classes will be running from 8.30 to 11 or there about. Sign up on Sunday at the info desk and indicate the day you prefer.
have a great day.
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May 7, 2009 at 11:32 am
@christian girl,
Leviticus 27:30-31 (from Topical Study Bible-New living Translation)
“A tenth of produce of the land, whether grain or fruit, belongs to the Lord and must be set apart to him as holy. If you want to redeem the Lord’s tenth of the fruit or grain, you must pay its value, plus 20 percent.”
About membership once you do mizizi you are automatically a member of Mavuno, which is part of chapel churches.
I also sense you have a lot of issues with mavuno from what you write i think it would be a good idea to seek audience with pastor M and get clarifications.
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May 7, 2009 at 11:36 am
@Njeru : call me on 2799701
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May 7, 2009 at 11:44 am
@ Christian gal I believe the tithing issue is one of the most misunderstood principals that has ever been taught. I will not try to explain it to you but ask you to seek out someone in the Pastoral team to take you through all your doubts.
Personally i believe the least i can do is 10%, parental giving, alms for the poor, taking care of widows and orphans. As God blesses us and as we grow in our faith then i beleive as Christians we only grow to love him more and before we know it we are giving more than the 10% and we do it without even questioning. Giving can be in many forms – being active in a church ministry, personal csr ie. visiting childrens homes, supporting the poor and just blessing people with the resources that God has given you. The only thing i know now for sure is the 1st thing i do is honor God with the 10%. There is joy in giving. Initially when i did not understand what the principle was i just said i will obey and give as in I did not want to rob God. Then as my faith grew and my eyes opened i dont even think about it when i give i give. If your heart is in the right place and as you continue to seek out the love of God all this will be finally clear to you. I actually encourage you to ask and confirm where you are not sure and the understanding will come with blessings.
have a lovely day.
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May 7, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Ladies interested in Women’s Torch (atleast that is the name for now) please post you day preferences there between Monday, Tuesday and Friday. Proposed time is 5am-6am. We need to get an idea of the numbers @ Debs will have a conversation with one of the lady pastors and communicate.
Baraka tele!
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May 7, 2009 at 1:47 pm
@ Dushe and Tumaini
Please read my blogpost again. I said the GRADUATED tithing that is taught in Mizizi. The teaching says that when your income is above lets say 50k, the first 50k you give 10%, then from 50-70k you give 15% etc. I would like to know which verse in the Bible talks about graduated tithing.
Also, in terms of membership, the standard process of attaining church membership involves various stages including discipleship, baptism, life group, recommendation etc , and a member actually exists in the church records. You then get to participate in the AGM and other meetings where you can ask questions like the ones I ask on this blog. Membership is not based on assumption.
Servant leadership=Accountability. I am a very open and sincere person and I have seen quite a number of things in this church, which are obviously wrong and are ignored. As a leader, the moment you surround yourself with ‘Yes’ men/women who can never point out a weakness/failure, you will never know when you are getting off the path.
The Bible says that you should scrutinise everything that you are taught, but you see, we are a bunch of Christians who cannot think for ourselves and are just sitting pretty waiting to be led. Going to church is 1/7 of your walk with God; The other 6/7 is sitting down everyday with your Bible and taking the time to study it and converse with your Maker, so that you can start thinking like Him.
I hope I am now clear.
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May 7, 2009 at 2:16 pm
@ Christian Gal… I like the fact that you are raising issues and asking for clarification rather than sitting pretty. But I also think that you are being a bit rigid in your analysis. for instance, in the case of ownership, having a piece of paper that affiliates you to a church doesn’t give you belonging. Sometimes because we see a standard way of doing things doesn’t mean that we negate any other way of doing the same thing. Tell me for instance, how having a piece of paper saying you belong to Mavuno will change anything for you. If its about accountability, You can view the accounts and attend the AGM’s as is right now, you don’t need to be noted down on some book as a member. I think it is wrong to say that Mavuno is a one man show, first, Mavuno is part of the Nairobi chapel of churches and follows their systems and procedures. Second, Mavuno is not the dome and the green house buildings but you and me and everyone else who comes to worship so how can it be a one man show? I think for me I feel a greater sense of ownership at Mavuno because I serve God there. I share the passions and vision that Mavuno has in this way. This to me is more valuable than any piece of paper saying I am a mavunite! I already know that I am. I would suggest you look for somewhere to plug in and serve and interact with fellow Christians because that is the only way you will be able to understand and share the vision of the church and why we do things the way we do.
baraka mob!
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May 7, 2009 at 2:37 pm
@Christian gal,
i believe the Mizizi graduated tithe is a guideline not a requirement. As Tumaini has said when faith grew, she gave out of love. There are no limits on love, i believe in the same study there is quoted 2 Cor 9:7 which says every one should give what their heart has decided to give as God loves a cheerful giver.
I have always felt in my Chrisitian life that when i queried in my heart as i give to God then i have failed the cheerful test as it is really connected to what i have decided to give. And God is faithful to provide both the seed and the bread to the sower and eater. Giving is personal to an individual and i would suggest you seek audience with Pastor M or S or L and voice your concerns. What matters is being faithful.when all is said and done were you obedient to God’s call to give.
Concerning membership, i would like to pause a challenge. Who set the standards for what constitutes an ideal church membership process. Was it set by man or by God.
i would like to believe that i am a member of Mavuno church even if i havent gone through the ‘standard process of attaining church membership through the various stages outlined by yourself’ , the blessing of having pastoral cover is good for me, and i enjoy the classes offered and the fellowship found in the life groups. As a result i have learnt that it is not about me but it’s all about Christ, and i am challenged to live my life for HIM.
I have been a believer for the past 21 years and i realize it is so easy to maintain tradition because others do it that way, i have enjoyed the challenge i face each day where i ask myself do i hold on to something/ideas/belief because it is based on God’s word or on tradition. I have non negotiables based on God’s word which i have found resonate well in Mavuno, and i have others that i have held on to because they were simply the best practices of the day, and others that are simply tradition. Concerning church membership i would ask ‘is it what i have seen others do and i have accepted their practise as gospel truth’ ‘would the house churches in the book of Acts hold true in this environment, where the church was a body of believers who came together, and even sold their possessions to care for one another. Think about it. all the more as we ‘encourage one another towards love and good deeds’
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May 7, 2009 at 2:56 pm
@ Dushe, 11.32am; just because Christian Gal is querying something doesn’t mean that she has issues with Mavuno. That is a level of intolerance that I have seen in Rwanda where just coz of asking a question you may be labelled a Genocidaire or Negationist. Lets not be quick to conclude but instead soberly review her issues.
@ Christian Gal, 1.47pm; You have some valid questions and the best course of action is to calmly write down your issues, review them with your accountability group and then follow the model of Mat 18:15-17
My personal opinion is that Mavuno has been taken over by marketers and celebs that’s why obvious error has crept in.
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May 7, 2009 at 3:18 pm
What does the Bible say about church membership?
A. The Bible is very clear that involvement in, and commitment to, a local church are essential for Christians. Throughout the New Testament, the pattern of the Christians is to meet in local congregations (e.g. Acts 2:46; 1 Corinthians 14:26; Ephesians 4:16; 1 Timothy 3:15). At some points we are commanded to do so (e.g. Hebrews 10:25). The Biblical principle is that the church is a family and a unit. Church membership is a way of becoming involved in the church and in demonstrating a commitment to the church.
There are a number of key differences between the simply committed people and the actual church member:
1.. Members have the right to vote at church meetings. This is possibly not the most exciting thing you’ve ever been able to do, but it does allow you to have a say in what the church does and how it functions. In particular, church members alone can approve the church’s budget and where funds get allocated, only church members can vote for deacons and elders (and pastors when a pastor is to be called), only church members can raise queries and make proposals about any issue at a church meeting. If you would like to have a voice in the way that our church is run and the things that it does, you need to have a vote, and to have a vote, you need to be church member.
2…Although the church provides support and care for everyone, the church has a special responsibility towards it’s members who are in need. Members who wish to make use of the church’s facilities or ministries are given priority over non-members. A knowledge of which people are willing to publicly associate themselves with the church by becoming members assists the church leadership in planning and effectively running the church.
3…Some of the departments of the church require you to be a church member before you can become involved.
The universal Church—the Body of Christ (Romans 12:5)—is composed of all true believers in Christ, but there is nothing in the Bible about “membership” in a local church assembly. As believers, we have our names written in the Lamb’s book of life (Revelation 20:12), which is the only “membership roll” spoken of in Scripture.
The New Testament churches apparently had no need of formal membership, relying instead on God to gather together believers in a local body. “And the Lord added to them day by day those that were being saved” (Acts 2:47). This verse indicates that salvation was a prerequisite for being “added” to the church. Churches today who require salvation before membership are simply following the biblical model. See also 2 Corinthians 6:14-18.
Although there is no scriptural mandate for church membership, there is certainly nothing to prohibit it. Church membership is a way of officially identifying oneself with a local body of believers. Church membership is a statement that a Christian is in agreement with that local church and is willing to be identified as a representative of it. Church membership is also valuable for organizational purposes and a good way of determining who is allowed to vote on important church decisions and/or who is involved in official church positions and functions. Church membership is not required of Christians. It is simply a way of saying, “I am a Christian and I believe _____ church is a good church.”
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May 7, 2009 at 3:21 pm
…just some extracts from various reads…
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May 7, 2009 at 3:30 pm
I suggest that we go back to sharing about the sermon.
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May 7, 2009 at 3:35 pm
@Dushe….Thank you!
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May 7, 2009 at 6:01 pm
Luke 6:37
“Stop judging others, and you will not be judged.Stop critisizing others, or it will all come back on you.If you forgive others, you will be forgiven.If you give, you will recieve.”
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May 7, 2009 at 10:31 pm
i find this sermon series very exciting especially since we have studied nehemiah in our life group, this feburary. as pstr m said, it was easy for nehemiah to ignore the situation back at home, we do it many times ignoring many people who need our help. we forget that God put us in those places to be little brothers and sisters to this world, we are supposed to look out for others, not being missued, just finding out what God meant us to do where we are. am still young and growing but i guess mavuno is the best thing that ever happened to me and i wish to help others but i gotta hang on and never let my fire go, i have to feed it and so should you.
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May 8, 2009 at 9:01 am
Sunday was very inspiring, but it also left me a bit troubled. I have had this purpose message many times and I’ve longed to know what I’m here for so I can start taking positive steps towards that… And don’t get me wrong, I’m not waiting for this BIG thing that I have to do; I’m just looking for direction.
On Sunday Pastor M asked what it is that makes us upset? Angry to leave as is? That fuels our passion? Because this can hint what your purpose entails. My question is what happens to those of us who have numerous passions? I’ve been passionate about so many different things at different points in my life. When I’m doing something I’m fully immersed, but I’m also a free spirit, easily bored by doing just one thing and ready to try anything new, it would help if I sucked at the things I try out, but generally I don’t. I thank God because he has blessed me with many abilities, I just don’t want to waste that doing everything but nothing at the same time. I’m looking for direction about what I need to be doing and when I need to be doing it… I’ve prayed about it, fasted and I’m wondering why God seems to give some people such clear direction while some of us feel like we are groping in the dark? I know God doesn’t waste my experiences and He may be leading me down a path even if I don’t realist that now…But this oven is starting to feel stuffy and I’m wondering just how long I have to be baked before I’m ready? So I have mixed feelings about this sermon series, a part of me is excited cause I know I’m going to learn a lot, then a part of me is scared because it will increase my longing to Know what He wants me to do and this might just leave me frustrated if I still don’t have a clue by the end of the series. In the meantime, I’ll continue serving him and looking for ways to be his hands and feet and maybe I’ll stumble on my purpose…
As for Christian gal, the ‘graduated tithing’ taught in Mizizi is not a rule, it’s a model. 10% tithe is the basic minimum, but God doesn’t limit himself when He provides for me, so why should I limit what I return to his storehouse? I feed spiritually from the Church and in some ways I feel like a Spiritual Glutton coz I get so much that it feels like I’m cheating only giving ten percent, and if God places me in a position to tithe even more I do. So the more I get, the more I’ll give as tithe. And this will be separate from what I give as offerings or alms. In school some people would find out what the pass mark for a course is and then aim for that. They would settle for the bare minimum just because some one gave them a ….I wanted distinctions! I studied hard and got rewarded for it. What is taught in Mizizi is that when it comes to tithing, you don’t have to settle for the bare minimum. Some guys even do reverse tithing, give 90% and live on 10% but it was a gradual process that led them to that place. It may seem foolish to others, but they’ve tapped into the power, joy and freedom of giving back to their Provider. That is what Mizizi tries to teach, you can do more than the bare minimum when you are able to because you are giving out of your abundance and gratefulness. Hope this helps…
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May 8, 2009 at 12:04 pm
I heard the story of William Colgate the founder of the Colgate& company, then ave just confirned it in the net, abt his faithfulness in tithing, he tithed faithfully, then he eventually got a job with soap making company where His tithing continued, at one point, he increased hit tithing to 2/10 then 3/10….eventually he told God am going to take the 1/10 and you take the 9/10,…yeah you can imagine, that was really out of love and not obligation,..who does not know the toothpaste colgate?
10% is the bare minimum
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May 8, 2009 at 2:49 pm
@ Tina
I really feel you on the many passions issue. I have at least 3 things that I’m VERY pasionate about, such thst they keep me awake at night thinkingof what i can do to change things and influence desicions.
@Christian Gal
God bless you for your boldness! It is because of you that I’ve gained the courage to raise the following issue here. I have asked my Life Group leader about this, but no response yet. My issue…why do we use secular songs to ‘worship’ God?? sometime back, after alot of prayer, 3 un-saved childhood friends of mine agreed to come to church. It was all good until we -as the worship leader said- “took back”a secular song and sang it during worship. My friends walked out in protest. When i followed them, they said this was the kind of music that they have been trying to get rid of yet they found it in church.
God has truly blessed Mavuno with amazing songwriters, as evidenced by the Mavuno Worship Project. Why, then, are we gathering scraps from the table of the world and offering it to a holy God in worship? By the way, those songs are not ours, so we’re ot taking them back. We’re stealing them!! We ought to be singing “psalms, hymns and spiritual songs” Eph 5:18-19. Or is it the celeb factor?Are we so star-struck we can’t see the obvious error??
@Mavunite
you promised to address this issue, but nothing yet.Could you at lest put up another page to deal with such issues, so tht we don’t use other forums such as these ones 4 sermons?
@Pst M
Please make a statement concerning this as our shepherd.
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May 8, 2009 at 5:07 pm
I strongly believe that the way we live is a consequence of the size of our God. The problem many of us have is that our God is too small. We are not convinced that we are absolutely safe in the hands of a fully competent, all-knowing, ever-present God.
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May 9, 2009 at 9:13 am
@ Christian gal, not an attender at Mavuno but at the risk of sounding rather politically incorrect, methinks it’s pretty cowardly to take advantage of this lovely site to cast aspersions on leaders character using the cover of anonymity! Or maybe its just me. Nuff said 🙂
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May 9, 2009 at 9:29 am
yeah i feel you Adam, i think its a bit cowardice but on the contrary,i think its a good way of getting to really know what people feel and may be we can change what we can, its like the old time suggestion box. people leave all kinds of comments. i encourage people to say all they want, i like the way pastor m and s normally do appolgising on behalf of pastros and men. it helps believe me
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May 9, 2009 at 9:31 am
Pastor M, as much as I enjoy this site, maybe its time to follow Almasi’s suggestion above and have a different page for non-sermon related issues? Mavuno is one of the very few churches I’ve known to have this kind of openness and access but it also makes it easy for people with an agenda to take advantage of your goodwill! In addition, I suggest the Mavuno webmaster begins to moderate our comments.
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May 9, 2009 at 2:46 pm
@ Adam, 9.13/9.31 am;- When you put up such a forum you should expect both positive and non-positive feedback. Since you already have called non-positive feedback as ‘cowardice’ then its safe to assume that you would label the positive feedback as ‘bravery’ 😀
Anyway, back to serious matters; who moderates these blog forums and indeed there should be a different page for people to chomoa their ‘biff’ coz as it is the subject of the sermon gets lost in domez.
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May 9, 2009 at 3:08 pm
@ Dan Toro, Adam, Almasi and Christian Gal;- to be honest Pst M addressed the issue of secular music whilst Mavuno was still at South C Sports Club and even though many weren’t convinced, it was let slide as he and Kanjii brought in examples of songs from Golden Bells that were bar songs in 2-300 years ago.
However this does not cleanse the songs and as rightly pointed out, Mavuno has quite a stable of song writers. I think it would be MORE appropriate to have songs developed in a godly atmosphere/ spirit as the worship songs rather than adopting songs that people composed whilst having sex, drinking alcohol or cursing God [using His name in vain like they do in studio sessions] etc.
God placed Mavuno is South C/Mombasa Road for a purpose and that is to impact the community for Jesus and His work must be done His Way. I congratulate Pst Simon and Pst Linda for being faithful to this task as they consistently remember what Mavuno is about through being unwavering in the need to depend on God through His Word and Prayer.
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May 10, 2009 at 7:44 am
Hi All,
I don’t Get the Need with Christian Gal She is just Raising Her Concerns and She is entitled to Get answers. Why are we focusin on what we assume is the Negative… From Her Query I have learnt there are different forms of Tithing- reverse and Graduated!
About Membership let’s not over blow it, Am a member of another Great Church that has what I consider the best management Model and I Wish all churches could Model that but I come to Mavuno for the Word and I love it Coz the Marketers make it lovely and enjoyable to get the Truths of God.
I love it @Mavuno and its a sign of Growth when People Start asking Questions!!
Pasy thanks for the series I have just gotten a Promotion that Scares Me but I am Daring to Dream and Glad you will show Me how to?
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May 10, 2009 at 8:38 am
i think tis healthy for all to air their concerns, no need for a moderator or second site as the concerns arise from the sermon, or sermon setting. The KEY is to address the concern. I’m keen to hear/read Mavuno leaderships response.
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May 10, 2009 at 10:35 pm
@ tuma
your concern is interesting just a bit ungrounded.i can give you a couple of angles on Eugene’s work but before then;
1)which bible version do you use i give you a brief of the attacks of it?
2)what of part of Rick Warren’s work is in question?
3) what do you understand by the term New Age?
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May 11, 2009 at 9:25 am
Hey guys,
whereas this debate is healthy..we need to avoid falling into the trap most Christians fall into of religion rather being religious.
-On the tithing issue, its important to note what the word says in Malachi. Please realise its the only time that God asks us to test Him. The graduated scale is meant to provoke us to ge to levels of testing God and see what He shall do. I like the Colgate example, i have a mentor who currently is on 60% tithing and you should see how God had favored him.
-On the music, i think we are having a religious discussion, praise and worship comes from your heart and NOT from words and songs written by others. Those help us to express to God what we feel. We are guilty of using songs as ‘opium’ to get high and feel as if we are in God’s presence esp if they make us cry BUT do we really mean what we are singing, is it from the heart? I know people who came to church and stayed cause of the music and got saved in the process. Whereas, initially it made me uncomfortable i am glad those people got saved. Like Paul said am glad they heard the gospel irrespective of the motivations. Plus now the music has changed….Oh and that ‘No one be like you’ song for me was spoilt, whenever it plays i so hear that Jesus part so clearly!!
Baraka
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May 11, 2009 at 1:22 pm
@thekenyannutcase.
Hope your week has started well. You sound a bit combative, please relax.
If you want to know the source of my concerns about The Message & Purpose Driven Life please take a moment of your time and google either the authors’ names or the books name. You will see where my concerns come from, and if you are in a position to answer my question please do.. that’s why i raised the question here on the blog to get an ANSWER OR CLARIFICATION. It was by no means an ACCUSATION.
GOD BLESS ALL MAVUNITES
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May 11, 2009 at 3:06 pm
@ tuma
my apologies if i sound combative.
passion is what i have for God’s word.am ready to defend it any time.i believe it is the final authority. am not yet an authority but i can share what i have.
since you have not identified specific issues, i’ll address the top pages on google about these guys critics and hope i shed some light.
for Rick Warren, he is accused of hiring Ken Blanchard(new age promotor) to help him train the body of Christ including his church on management.i’ve read some of Ken’s management books.they are in your local christian bookshop.why?coz the principles of management will work whether it’s practiced in church or in business.
to bring the point home, it’s like mavuno hiring Michael joseph to train the communication department of the church.wonder what people will say???
i don’t know if you’ve read some of Steven Covey’s books?He too is not a christian and he (covey) has recommended John Maxwell’s books.they have even done seminars together.is John Maxwell therefore a cult teacher too??
as for the Message,there are many haters each with a take.i’ll just say this.if you trust Pst M and S are christians and Pst Oscar who commissioned them to start mavuno then you can trust John Stott one of the author’s of the message who calls Pst Oscar “the best bible expositor in Africa”www.keswickministries.org
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May 12, 2009 at 3:06 pm
@ thekenyannutcase, May 11, 2009 at 3:06 pm; I thank God for your strong passion for God’s word and truth. We truly need more Bereans like you in the Church as well as in Mavuno.
I would like to comment on your response on the Message; In Galatians 1:8 says ‘But even if we or an angel from heaven should proclaim to you a gospel contrary to what we proclaimed to you, let that person be condemned!’. Basically it doesn’t matter whether Pstrs Simon, Muriithi and Oscar, John Stott or Rick Warren are the best bible expositors in Africa or the World, the Word of God is the one in which we should place our trust. I wouldn’t trust John Stott/Pst Oscar/Pst M/Pst Simon or any other human’s exposition of the bible UNLESS AND AFTER I have understood and read it for myself.
I want to paste two versions of the same scripture here and let you examine for yourself what you are getting when you read each version;-
Mathew 6:9-13
Mt 6:9 “This, then, is how you should pray: “ ‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name,
Mt 6:10 your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Mt 6:11 Give us today our daily bread.
Mt 6:12 Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
Mt 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one
Our Father in heaven,
Reveal who you are.
Set the world right;
Do what’s best— as above, so below.
Keep us alive with three square meals.
Keep us forgiven with you and forgiving others.
Keep us safe from ourselves and the Devil.
You’re in charge!
You can do anything you want!
You’re ablaze in beauty!
Yes. Yes. Yes.
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May 12, 2009 at 9:02 pm
@Tuma
Some obervations. Ken Blanchard has openly confessed Christ as Saviour. He and a much respected Christian Leader Henry Blackaby run great semminars titled Lead Like Jesus. Some of the people who were influential in bringing Ken Blanchard to Christ are Pastor Rick Warren and Pastor Bill Hybels (I believe).
When the word is preached our call is to go back to scripture and to God. Like the Bereans lets us be commended for searching scripture and earnestly asking God to show us if what was taught was consistent with His word and His Will.
Lets us also be just as quick to test google resources. We have an enemy who is able to use even this popular search engines to achieve his purpose to undermine God’s word.
No one is infalliable. The only true Source is God’s Word. If we earnestly seek God He says He will reveal Great And Unsearchable things we do not know. Even as we take Pastor M to task over the sermon, lets us be quick to go to our knees and ask God for direction.
God Bless
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May 15, 2009 at 4:00 pm
After all is said and done, I think it is up to us as Christians to examine what is presented and judge from the Word of God whether what is being presented is actually wholesome and of true report.
Psalm 12:6-7, “The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.”
Thank you for your opinions.
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May 18, 2009 at 2:31 pm
Hi all,
I know I’m a little late to comment on this and Pastor M on Sunday did respond to it…..About the Message Bible…..like Pastor M. said….sometimes when you read from it you see something you could have missed in other versions. I also agree (and try to practise) that we should have various versions with us to compare verses. Anywho….I remember the first time I read from the Message Bible I was curious as to its origin and this is what I found on bible.com
“Version Information
Why was The Message written? The best answer to that question comes from Eugene Peterson himself: “While I was teaching a class on Galatians, I began to realize that the adults in my class weren’t feeling the vitality and directness that I sensed as I read and studied the New Testament in its original Greek. Writing straight from the original text, I began to attempt to bring into English the rhythms and idioms of the original language. I knew that the early readers of the New Testament were captured and engaged by these writings and I wanted my congregation to be impacted in the same way. I hoped to bring the New Testament to life for two different types of people: those who hadn’t read the Bible because it seemed too distant and irrelevant and those who had read the Bible so much that it had become ‘old hat.'”
Peterson’s parishioners simply weren’t connecting with the real meaning of the words and the relevance of the New Testament for their own lives. So he began to bring into English the rhythms and idioms of the original ancient Greek—writing straight out of the Greek text without looking at other English translations. As he shared his version of Galatians with them, they quit stirring their coffee and started catching Paul’s passion and excitement as he wrote to a group of Christians whom he was guiding in the ways of Jesus Christ. For more than two years, Peterson devoted all his efforts to The Message New Testament. His primary goal was to capture the tone of the text and the original conversational feel of the Greek, in contemporary English.
Language changes. New words are formed. Old words take on new meaning. There is a need in every generation to keep the language of the gospel message current, fresh, and understandable—the way it was for its very first readers. That is what The Message seeks to accomplish for contemporary readers. It is a version for our time – designed to be read by contemporary people in the same way as the original koin Greek and Hebrew manuscripts were savored by people thousands of years ago.
That’s why NavPress felt the time was right for a new version. When we hear something over and over again in the same way, we can become so familiar with it that the text loses its impact. The Message strives to help readers hear the living Word of God – the Bible – in a way that engages and intrigues us right where we are.
Some people like to read the Bible in Elizabethan English. Others want to read a version that gives a close word-for-word correspondence between the original languages and English. Eugene Peterson recognized that the original sentence structure is very different from that of contemporary English. He decided to strive for the spirit of the original manuscripts – to express the rhythm of the voices, the flavor of the idiomatic expressions, the subtle connotations of meaning that are often lost in English translations.
The goal of The Message is to engage people in the reading process and help them understand what they read. This is not a study Bible, but rather “a reading Bible.” The verse numbers, which are not in the original documents, have been left out of the print version to facilitate easy and enjoyable reading. The original books of the Bible were not written in formal language. The Message tries to recapture the Word in the words we use today.”
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May 20, 2009 at 2:41 pm
Just logging into the discussion,I’m a little bit dizzy from what you all are writing up here, anyhow, back to the sermon,……
I find this month’s sermon truly inspiring. I am finally at the point where I am truly convinced that God’s plans for my life are better than my own and that he can accomplish more out of my life if i yield it to him, than i ever could by running it on my own agenda. A truly humbling realization, and a realization that has taken me several years to make. Thank you Pastor M, for challenging us to look beyond ourselves and to live for something bigger than our own dreams (read mercedes benz, own company, fame and recognition e.t.c.). If we begin to live for God, then we begin to grasp eternity and live for those things that will last for a life time and that are a part of God’s overall plan for humanity.
It is true that vision comes with a sense of urgency that causes a person to want to go and blow everything up using the most powerful explosives. I feel a lot like that sometimes.
However, now I know that to earn the right to speak, I must first do my homework, seek God for a strategy and they wait for His timing.
Thank you for your very practical and applicable teaching on vision. May God bless you as you continue in His service.
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June 1, 2009 at 2:58 pm
Hi Pastor M, our life group discussion last week was very intense and we need your guidance on Vision vs. Purpose. Which leads to the other – does purpose lead to vision or the other way round or are they one and the same thing. One member reckons you find your purpose when you die, however another thinks purpose is our usefulness on earth. Therefore, how do we know when we have acquired our purpose or vision in life. Many thanks for your assistance. Westparkeee
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